The Hidden Truth About Backyard Eggs

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Foreign.

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I'm Nicole Arcelo and welcome back to In Behalf of Animals.

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The response to the start of our second season and our last

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episode has been amazing. Thank you all so much for

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reaching out for sharing. It's just been so inspiring to see

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like minded people connect and share their thoughts and and feel like they have a

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space to be themselves. That's exactly what I hope this podcast can

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be. A place to feel like you belong to explore,

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reflect and find some inspiration together.

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I also wanted to let you know that we've started a substack as a companion

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to the podcast. There I'll expand on an episode with

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visuals, links and more information on the topics we cover. I'll also share

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personal reflections and even some vegan recipes. I'll put

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a link in the show notes and I'm looking forward to seeing you all there

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in the comments so we can connect. And just a

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reminder, even though we cover heavy topics here, I will always try

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to leave you with a sense of hope and yes, even ways

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to find joy. And speaking of which, I think you're

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really going to enjoy our new segment at the end of today's episode.

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So today I'm chatting with Suzanne Gonzalez from Pennsylvania Voters for

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Animals about backyard eggs, chickens more

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specifically. It's an eye opening conversation,

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so let's dive in.

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Hi Suzanne. Welcome to In Behalf of Animals.

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Hi Nicole. So happy to be here. I am so happy

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you're here with me today. I love your work you're doing and I'm so excited

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you can join us for today's episode. So Pennsylvania Voters

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for Animals is doing such great work in such a short period of time and

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I definitely want to talk about that a little bit later. But first let's focus

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on this important topic that you've been raising awareness about, backyard chickens.

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Now, I saw you just a little over a week ago at the Compassion for

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Animals and Environment Conference at Bucks County Community College in Newtown,

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Pennsylvania. And I have to say, as soon as I saw you were speaking on

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this topic, I reached out right away, I think in August, right. And I wanted

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to invite you on the show. And I'm glad we waited till

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after your presentation because there was so much I didn't know or

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maybe just wasn't aware of. And I think our listeners will learn a lot

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too. So maybe I'm just going to throw

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a few things out there. Maybe it's because the egg

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prices are so high. We keep hearing that about that, right. For well over a

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year now, maybe people are keeping chickens in their backyards

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as a kinder alternative to factory farming. But there's a

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lot more to this story. So can you start by

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sharing what life is like for chickens in the commercial egg industry?

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Sure. I'm so happy, first of all, to have this

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opportunity to share what I've actually learned over

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the past ten years or so. I think that's really important to

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share with your community, with your listeners.

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Absolutely. That I am not a veterinarian. I also

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have never ca. Kept chickens in my

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backyard. So everything that I've learned is actually

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through reading, informing myself,

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and also experiences that I've had over

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the past 10 years with work that I've

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done in rescuing farmed animals. Bearing witness

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to what chickens in particular,

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that's the focus of our discussion today,

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what life is like for them living in, you know,

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this commercial egg production environment.

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And so through, you know, bearing witness

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rescue work, I actually, I felt it was

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incumbent upon me to really understand what,

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what are they going through? What is life like for a

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chicken can find within the commercial egg industry.

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So, you know, we can talk over the next, you know,

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hour or so about just some of the statistics currently

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within the US Egg industry, which I found really

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just shocking for me, just that they

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share numbers. Yeah, I can also, yeah, I was really

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surprised. We can also talk about, and most importantly

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the who, as you had mentioned, like who, you know, what is it like

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for the chickens? So really talking about, you know,

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who, who is, who is the, you know,

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who, who is the victim, if you will, behind this egg industry.

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Right. And then we can take a deep dive into the

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backyard, you know, what is lake like for chickens

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living in backyard egg production? Right. So first

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and foremost, I do get my information, actually a

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lot of it from the US Actually the

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US egg producers themselves, because I

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find, you know, we, we need to go to the source to get information.

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So for US egg production in 2024,

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there were actually 93.1 billion eggs

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produced in the US alone. So I'm going to say it again.

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93.1 billion eggs produced

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in 2020. Billion with a B. Billion with a B. And this

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is actually down 1% from 2023.

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Um, and I'll talk a little bit about the why. Why is it down?

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Um, There were also 311

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million commercial table egg laying hens

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at the end of 2024. And this is down 2

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from 2023, about 3% now.

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You know, we would say to ourselves, like, oh, maybe people are starting to realize,

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like, oh, I don't need to consume eggs from

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chickens to maintain my quality of life or health and

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well being. But that's not the reason why. The reason why

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egg production was down and the number of eggs

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were down in 2024 over 2023

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is because of the bird flu. I think we've

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all heard about bird flu and how it is impacting not

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only are wild birds, but also birds

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that are kept by the, by animal agriculture.

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Right. Also cows, you know, the dairy herds

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were impacted by bird flu. And humans as well, humans can be impacted.

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But the decline in the number of

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eggs produced in 2024 and the number of hens actually

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kept within the egg industry or by the egg industry,

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it was down because of bird flu. Sadly in

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2024, 20 million hens

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were killed or chickens were killed because

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of bird flu. And that was a mass euthanasia

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or killing of these animals. Right.

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10 million of that 20 million were actually chickens that

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were used by the egg industry.

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So that explains the decline in

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this year numbers of, you know, hens, right. In 2024.

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Awful. On average a hen. And we'll

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talk a little bit more about this, but on average a hen used by

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the egg industry will produce about 300,

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301 eggs per year. And I

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do want to talk a little bit more about like comparing a,

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a wild hen in nature, you know, what,

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what they produce and as per the number of

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eggs and compare that to, you know, what it looks like compared

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to like the hens that are used by the egg industry. So in

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nature today we actually have a close

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relative to the domesticated chickens and

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they're called a red, the red jungle fowl and they

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can be found in Southeast Asia. And on

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average they produce about 12 eggs per year. So they'll

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have like two clutches of eggs. So like

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four to six eggs per clutch. It's usually like seasonal. So similar to what

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we see, you know, in our birds friends outside robins

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and you know, blue jays, et cetera,

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these red jungle fell, they, they lay about

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12 eggs per year. So when

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we look at the domesticated hens who humans for

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hundreds if not thousands of years have been

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using, you know, we say domesticated but essentially

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we're using them. Right. Over the centuries or

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the mille, they've selectively bred these hens

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to produce more and more eggs.

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And it really took hold in the early 1900s

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where hens were producing about 120 eggs per

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year. So you think about like you divided over a month, like maybe

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10 eggs a month, right? It really took hold after

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World War I and World War II, where the egg industry as well as

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our government started looking at, hey, you know what, we're onto something here.

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We can actually incentivize farmers to

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selectively breed hens to produce more and

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more eggs, right? So you see this tremendous jump in the

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number of eggs produced by hens that are used within the commercial egg

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industry from like early 1900s,

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like 120 as I mentioned, to now 300

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eggs per year. So you can just imagine for

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the hen, who in nature would be producing 12

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eggs per year, right to now, the hens used within

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the commercial egg industry producing 300

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eggs per year. Another unnatural thing

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that you know, that we force animals to do through domesticating them, using them,

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exploiting them. 100%.

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Nicole. And what I found also

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so, so interesting or actually so

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sad is I found a chart put

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out by the United Egg, the United

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Egg industry and they represent about 90% of

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all of the egg producers in the United States. And if you,

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you look at this one graph and it was starting in 2004

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comparing to 2024. So in a 20 year

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period in 2004, the chicken, a hen would lay

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about 266 eggs per year.

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Fast forward 20 years and the hens today,

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as I mentioned, are laying on average 301

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eggs per year. So within a 20 year

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span, that's a 13.2% increase or

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about three dozen more eggs per year.

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Right. So and the industry's celebrating this,

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right? This is like good news for them but horrible

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news for, for the chickens. Absolutely. And so

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as I shared, you know, doing this work

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myself, looking at, you know, these statistics put

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out by the industry, when I looked at this graph, I looked at

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it in, in horror because I thought this represents,

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you know, in increased egg production means increased suffering,

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increased, you know, issues that we'll talk about in

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a minute or two. Right? But for the industry it's hey,

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we're doing more with less. So that, you know, that's an increase

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in their profit margins. When we look at

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it as that's an increase in suffering, right? So,

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so then as we go through, you know, we, we start thinking

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about what is it like for a hen within the U.S.

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commercial egg production industry. And right

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now, you know, when I started looking at where are that, where are the hens

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kept, where are they housed? And so

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what I found again, put out by the United egg producers

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representing 90% of the US egg production

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60.5% of all

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hens. So that's about 184 million hens

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used by the Egg industry are housed within conventional,

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AKA factory farms, AKA battery

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cages. Right. So the majority of hens are still

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kept within factory farms and within, confined within

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those battery cages. And for people that don't

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know what a battery cage is, it's, you can certainly

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look it up. I recommend people doing their own, you know,

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finding their own information, you know, to confirm

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everything that I'm saying. But yeah, well, and we'll put some on our sub stack.

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We'll follow this episode up with a little more information. Some of the vid reads

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you had if you could share because they're so, so powerful, that would be awesome.

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Yeah. And so, so they are actually

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kept in these cages

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where inside that cage, each hen

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has about a letter sized piece

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of paper to spend every

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minute of their confinement within that cage.

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And it's not just one hen per cage, it is multiple hands

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per cage. So for a visual, you're saying the. So one piece

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of paper is the bottom of their cage, right? Exactly. And then the rest of

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it's just very close around their bodies. So they don't have a space to do

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anything that they would naturally do just for a visual.

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A hundred percent. They have, you know, typically a hen

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in a natural setting would, you know, they love to dust bathe,

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they, they want to flap their wings, they want to, they actually love

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to, you know, forage and just be

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with their friends and be outside. And in

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a battery cage, there's none of that. They are literally

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there to produce eggs.

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And so they live a life of just intensive

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confinement. And so about almost

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a little less than 40% of the hens used by

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the egg industry are in what's called total cage free.

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So what does that mean? About 6.7,

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almost 7% of the hens use or you know,

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by the egg industry that are considered cage free would

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be in like say an organic farm. So organic

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farms, typically the hens would not be kept in cages,

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but they also would not be fed like antibiotics

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or gmo, you know, grains or,

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you know, feed. They also would be,

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you know, really kept from just like, you know,

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chemicals or growth hormones, et cetera.

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The rest are, you know, a cage free

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environment. It doesn't necessarily mean cruelty free.

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Some of those, you know, hens that are kept in cage

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free environments are actually housed

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in these giant barns or warehouses where they too

247
00:17:06,820 --> 00:17:10,780
are intensively confined. Right. They just don't

248
00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:14,340
have, they're not in a cage. And that's literally what cage

249
00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:18,460
free means. Right. They're in cage, but they're still in tight quarters. In these

250
00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,100
sheds, warehouses and they still can't do those natural instincts.

251
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And then you know, it's just so, it's just so awful.

252
00:17:26,360 --> 00:17:29,910
And you know, in my previous life working in salons,

253
00:17:30,150 --> 00:17:33,510
a lot of my customers would say, well I only buy cage free or organic

254
00:17:34,010 --> 00:17:36,710
and, or local eggs. And it's, it's, it's all the same.

255
00:17:37,270 --> 00:17:40,710
It, it is all the same. People just don't, just don't realize. It's just marketing.

256
00:17:41,030 --> 00:17:44,390
It, it is absolutely marketing. And you know,

257
00:17:44,890 --> 00:17:48,310
for people that buy, as you had just mentioned, like pasture raised or

258
00:17:48,810 --> 00:17:52,430
free range, it literally means there's very

259
00:17:52,930 --> 00:17:57,110
few regulations around, you know, these labels with the exception of organic.

260
00:17:57,610 --> 00:18:00,890
I do want clear there are criteria, you know,

261
00:18:01,390 --> 00:18:04,450
for an organic label. But pasture raised in

262
00:18:05,250 --> 00:18:09,250
free range literally means that the hens

263
00:18:10,130 --> 00:18:13,690
should have access to outside. Right. It does

264
00:18:14,190 --> 00:18:17,970
not mean that they're going outside, you know, so it is a label that people

265
00:18:18,770 --> 00:18:22,290
are, you know, they do their, it eases their conscience when

266
00:18:22,790 --> 00:18:26,540
they are buying these eggs. So perfectly said. And what's really

267
00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,380
interesting, or at least to me when I

268
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:34,540
was, you know, doing this fact gathering, the industry. So the egg

269
00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:38,460
producing industry are actually moving towards

270
00:18:38,620 --> 00:18:42,860
more of the cage free environment. And it's not because

271
00:18:42,940 --> 00:18:46,460
they really care about the welfare of

272
00:18:46,940 --> 00:18:49,180
the chickens exploited by the egg industry.

273
00:18:50,150 --> 00:18:53,270
They know that people will pay more for a

274
00:18:53,770 --> 00:18:57,670
humane label. Right. So they are really advocating

275
00:18:58,070 --> 00:19:03,510
that egg producers do move to a more cage

276
00:19:03,590 --> 00:19:07,110
free type environment. And it is for, as you said,

277
00:19:07,350 --> 00:19:11,350
it's for marketing purposes. Right. It's for their benefit and not the chickens.

278
00:19:11,850 --> 00:19:15,270
Absolutely is. So if you agree,

279
00:19:15,770 --> 00:19:18,760
I'm happy to talk about now as, as you know,

280
00:19:19,260 --> 00:19:22,520
you had said at the beginning, like who, who,

281
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:27,000
who is behind the egg industry? Who are

282
00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:31,160
the individuals? Because we do look at them as individuals

283
00:19:31,660 --> 00:19:34,680
who are being, you know, basically exploited.

284
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,760
Yeah, that's why we're here. Yeah. So it all

285
00:19:39,260 --> 00:19:41,960
starts with breeding parents.

286
00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,970
So you know the hens that are used for, by the egg

287
00:19:46,470 --> 00:19:50,250
industry to, you know, for egg production, they had

288
00:19:50,750 --> 00:19:55,130
parents. Right. And so the parents start out as chicks

289
00:19:55,630 --> 00:19:59,250
and they are raised purposely to become breeders

290
00:19:59,490 --> 00:20:03,490
of future hens to be used by the egg

291
00:20:03,990 --> 00:20:07,730
industry. So the little chicks,

292
00:20:07,810 --> 00:20:11,650
once they're hatched, they are actually debeaked.

293
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:16,000
And for people that don't know what de beaking is, it literally is

294
00:20:16,500 --> 00:20:20,400
a partial amputation of the little chick speak

295
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:25,080
and it's done without any type of anesthesia

296
00:20:25,580 --> 00:20:29,440
or pain relief. And it is done not because,

297
00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:33,920
you know, they don't want the chicks to hurt themselves

298
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,760
per Se. Or it's done, you know, to help

299
00:20:38,260 --> 00:20:41,810
the chick. It's actually done because they want to protect

300
00:20:42,610 --> 00:20:46,850
their products. And so chicks

301
00:20:47,170 --> 00:20:50,490
under, you know, that are, that I was going to say

302
00:20:50,990 --> 00:20:55,570
under this life, this life of just captivity

303
00:20:55,650 --> 00:20:58,370
and you know, exploitation, oppression,

304
00:20:59,410 --> 00:21:04,370
just undergoing this debeaking process, chicks have actually just

305
00:21:04,530 --> 00:21:07,960
died from the stress of undergoing debeaking.

306
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:12,280
Or chicks who do survive the debeaking process,

307
00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:16,200
they actually could starve or they can die of dehydration

308
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,560
because it is so painful for them after

309
00:21:20,060 --> 00:21:22,519
their, their beaks are partially amputated.

310
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:27,880
The reason the industry does it is because they do want

311
00:21:28,380 --> 00:21:32,450
to stop any potential injury

312
00:21:32,530 --> 00:21:36,450
that one hen or the rooster could do to

313
00:21:36,950 --> 00:21:40,450
another, another, you know, hen or other roosters.

314
00:21:41,570 --> 00:21:45,250
It also is done because they want to prevent self mutilation.

315
00:21:45,410 --> 00:21:50,210
And it's also done because under these stressful conditions,

316
00:21:51,010 --> 00:21:54,530
hens and roosters will actually cannibalize each other.

317
00:21:54,770 --> 00:21:57,410
So this is all documented, it's all fact.

318
00:21:57,730 --> 00:22:01,610
And, but the industry is not doing this because, oh,

319
00:22:02,110 --> 00:22:05,670
it's a good thing to do for chicks. It's actually good to protect

320
00:22:06,170 --> 00:22:08,510
their, you. Know, their products, their assets, their products.

321
00:22:08,750 --> 00:22:12,350
Absolutely. Their profit margins. Right. So the other thing

322
00:22:12,850 --> 00:22:16,990
that routinely the parents who,

323
00:22:17,390 --> 00:22:21,230
you know, of the future egg layer laying hens,

324
00:22:21,710 --> 00:22:25,750
they're also vaccinated because there are so many viruses

325
00:22:26,250 --> 00:22:30,680
and you know, bacterial infections that can again impact

326
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,080
the chickens and then impact egg production

327
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,560
down the line. So immediately they're de. Beaked, they're vaccinated,

328
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:44,000
they are then kept until they're about 20 to

329
00:22:44,500 --> 00:22:48,080
22 weeks of age and then they're sent to breeder

330
00:22:48,580 --> 00:22:51,720
farms. And these breeder farms are basically

331
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,970
giant warehouses where hundreds

332
00:22:56,470 --> 00:23:00,010
and hundreds of hens and roosters are kept

333
00:23:00,510 --> 00:23:03,890
together for the sole purpose of mating

334
00:23:04,050 --> 00:23:07,330
to produce fertilized eggs.

335
00:23:08,850 --> 00:23:12,130
So those chicks then, you know,

336
00:23:12,370 --> 00:23:15,570
they will be sexed and we'll talk about that in a, in a minute.

337
00:23:16,050 --> 00:23:19,890
But the, the purpose of keeping the breeder parents

338
00:23:21,230 --> 00:23:24,830
in these breeding farms or on these breeding farms is to produce

339
00:23:25,390 --> 00:23:29,030
future hens that would be used

340
00:23:29,530 --> 00:23:33,150
within the egg industry. So what life is like

341
00:23:33,650 --> 00:23:36,590
for a hen confined in these breeder farm,

342
00:23:37,090 --> 00:23:41,110
on these breeder farms, she cannot defend

343
00:23:41,610 --> 00:23:44,750
herself at all against either other hens

344
00:23:44,830 --> 00:23:48,300
or mostly from the roosters. Right.

345
00:23:48,380 --> 00:23:51,500
He is completely at

346
00:23:51,660 --> 00:23:54,300
the mercy of, you know, those conditions.

347
00:23:55,260 --> 00:23:58,700
She will be repeatedly bred, she will

348
00:23:58,780 --> 00:24:02,220
just, there's no escaping, no defending themselves.

349
00:24:03,020 --> 00:24:06,620
And the industry recognizes that this is such a stressful

350
00:24:07,120 --> 00:24:11,180
environment for both the male and female chickens

351
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:15,730
that they consider these breeder

352
00:24:16,230 --> 00:24:19,730
parents spent at around 65

353
00:24:19,890 --> 00:24:23,770
weeks of age. So I, I haven't mentioned it yet,

354
00:24:24,270 --> 00:24:28,290
but I will, you know, throughout our talk. But a hen can,

355
00:24:28,790 --> 00:24:32,210
or chickens actually can live anywhere from six to eight years

356
00:24:32,290 --> 00:24:36,450
of age. So when these breeding

357
00:24:36,530 --> 00:24:40,570
parents are determined, spent, which is about 65 weeks or

358
00:24:41,070 --> 00:24:45,060
about 15 months old, right. They're literally still

359
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,740
babies themselves and they are considered spent

360
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:51,820
and they will then be sent to slaughter.

361
00:24:53,740 --> 00:24:57,420
So you know what? I, I just to, when you're

362
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,460
talking about the breeder parents, this, it reminds me of puppy mills

363
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,980
for dogs. Right. And so many people now are aware of

364
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,740
puppy mills and what the parents go through and these, these.

365
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,580
But the same thing is happening. It seems

366
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,540
to me. It feels like the same, it sounds like the same story. It's happening

367
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,260
to these chickens and people are buying eggs and they, and they,

368
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,700
I think if they could put those pieces together, they wouldn't do that. You know,

369
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:29,500
it's like educating people, like, it's, it just reminds

370
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,500
me of that. And it's my frustration as a vegan animal rights activist that people

371
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,500
don't see those chickens the same as dogs. But anyway, such a great point,

372
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,980
Nicole. And to, you know, further your point, the USDA actually,

373
00:25:42,630 --> 00:25:46,070
you know, has oversight of puppy mills. So you

374
00:25:46,570 --> 00:25:50,470
think about it, it al. Is part of animal agriculture, puppy mills,

375
00:25:50,970 --> 00:25:54,150
and, and this as well. So that's an excellent point. Absolutely.

376
00:25:54,950 --> 00:25:58,310
So, you know, the sad thing, too.

377
00:25:58,390 --> 00:26:01,630
More, more, more sad, more sad things to

378
00:26:02,130 --> 00:26:05,870
share. But it's the truth and that's important. It is the truth. And that

379
00:26:06,370 --> 00:26:09,390
is, that is such an important point to make, that it is all true.

380
00:26:09,890 --> 00:26:13,740
It is unassailable truth. And so we have to be armed with that truth to

381
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,860
advocate. We do have to be armed with it. And the sad reality is in

382
00:26:18,360 --> 00:26:21,980
nature. So going back to our friend, the red jungle

383
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:27,020
fowl, she would, a mom hen would have,

384
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,820
you know, she'd lay her eggs, she would safeguard her egg,

385
00:26:30,900 --> 00:26:34,180
she would talk to her eggs. She would,

386
00:26:35,620 --> 00:26:39,140
you know, this would be. Every part of her life is around

387
00:26:39,220 --> 00:26:43,030
protecting those eggs, you know, turning the eggs and

388
00:26:43,530 --> 00:26:47,070
ensuring that those eggs hatch naturally and that she

389
00:26:47,570 --> 00:26:50,430
would then nurture her babies. Right. Well,

390
00:26:50,930 --> 00:26:54,310
in life within the egg industry, for these,

391
00:26:54,810 --> 00:26:58,790
you know, the, the hens, the breeding hens, for the roosters,

392
00:26:59,030 --> 00:27:02,190
they don't have any of that. There's none of that. Those fertilized

393
00:27:02,690 --> 00:27:06,390
eggs that were produced within the, you know, the confines of that breeding form,

394
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,360
they are immediately taken away from those hens.

395
00:27:10,860 --> 00:27:14,520
Right. Because again, it's precious cargo. They do not want anything to

396
00:27:15,020 --> 00:27:18,680
happen to Those fertilized eggs. So those eggs are gathered up and

397
00:27:19,180 --> 00:27:20,840
then they are actually taking to,

398
00:27:22,120 --> 00:27:25,920
you know, hatcheries and kept in

399
00:27:26,420 --> 00:27:30,240
those hatcheries. And on average in

400
00:27:30,740 --> 00:27:35,550
the U.S. there are still 600 million chicks

401
00:27:35,870 --> 00:27:39,590
hatched annually for egg production

402
00:27:40,090 --> 00:27:42,830
alone. 600 million.

403
00:27:43,950 --> 00:27:47,150
So they are, as I shared, you know, those,

404
00:27:47,230 --> 00:27:50,590
the little chicks that come from those breeding parents,

405
00:27:51,090 --> 00:27:54,150
again, all for the egg industry, they're denied the care,

406
00:27:54,650 --> 00:27:58,190
the warmth and the protection of their mothers. And instead

407
00:27:58,350 --> 00:28:02,090
they were incubated in metal drawers, you know,

408
00:28:02,590 --> 00:28:06,530
in these warm environments, but, but absolutely

409
00:28:07,090 --> 00:28:10,410
cold. You know, the. They would hear in

410
00:28:10,910 --> 00:28:14,650
nature, they would hear their mom vocalizing to them while

411
00:28:15,150 --> 00:28:18,370
they're still in their, you know, their eggs when they hatch. They would

412
00:28:18,870 --> 00:28:22,050
recognize their mom's vocalizations. The only sound

413
00:28:22,550 --> 00:28:26,290
they hear in these incubators are the sound of machinery.

414
00:28:26,610 --> 00:28:30,220
Right. After 21 days, the little

415
00:28:30,300 --> 00:28:33,660
chicks will actually peck their way out of the shells.

416
00:28:34,540 --> 00:28:37,100
They are then jostled on machines,

417
00:28:37,660 --> 00:28:41,100
roughly handled, sorted, and then sexed. And we'll talk a

418
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,620
little bit more about what that looks like. Please do, because that was very much.

419
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,580
Yeah. And they will then be separated into males and females and

420
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:53,180
then they're tossed onto conveyor belts towards their necks

421
00:28:53,710 --> 00:28:56,110
destination. And let's talk about the males.

422
00:28:57,150 --> 00:29:00,590
So the life of a male chick in the egg industry.

423
00:29:01,390 --> 00:29:05,830
As we said, 600 million eggs

424
00:29:06,330 --> 00:29:09,389
are hatched, right, every year in the U.S. well,

425
00:29:09,889 --> 00:29:13,310
guess what? 300 million of those are male.

426
00:29:14,030 --> 00:29:18,070
Male chicks. And the egg industry considers

427
00:29:18,570 --> 00:29:22,500
them byproducts because a male chick or

428
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,500
a male, a rooster cannot lay eggs. So they have

429
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,060
no purpose. So over 300 million chicks

430
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,100
are killed every year in the US alone. And I'll

431
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,540
talk a little bit about how are they killed, the male chicks.

432
00:29:38,780 --> 00:29:42,060
So they hatch, they're sexed,

433
00:29:42,460 --> 00:29:46,590
determined to be male, and then most are

434
00:29:46,830 --> 00:29:50,590
macerated. And what that means is the little chicks

435
00:29:51,070 --> 00:29:54,910
who are just hours old are actually sent

436
00:29:55,070 --> 00:29:58,590
into, on conveyor belts into these grinding machines.

437
00:29:59,550 --> 00:30:01,150
So they are literally,

438
00:30:02,270 --> 00:30:05,390
they are ground up alive. Alive.

439
00:30:07,950 --> 00:30:10,910
Some are gas using, you know,

440
00:30:11,410 --> 00:30:15,120
CO2, some are suffocated. They'll actually be thrown

441
00:30:15,620 --> 00:30:19,280
out in trash bags. And in those plastic trash bags,

442
00:30:19,780 --> 00:30:23,720
they suffocate. And then some are killed by what's called cervical

443
00:30:24,220 --> 00:30:27,640
dislocation or having their necks broken. And this

444
00:30:28,140 --> 00:30:31,400
is all, as you said, this is all the truth, right?

445
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:35,400
And this is what we are supporting when we buy eggs.

446
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,890
In 2016, the United

447
00:30:39,970 --> 00:30:43,330
Egg Producers, which again was the organization

448
00:30:43,830 --> 00:30:47,050
that represents over 90% of the egg producers in the

449
00:30:47,550 --> 00:30:51,810
United States, they set a goal of eliminating the culling where

450
00:30:52,310 --> 00:30:56,130
that's a euphemism used, killing of day old male

451
00:30:56,630 --> 00:31:00,330
chicks by 2020 or as soon as it is commercially

452
00:31:00,830 --> 00:31:04,300
available and economically feasible. So the question is,

453
00:31:04,780 --> 00:31:07,820
was it inflament? We're in 2025, right?

454
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,300
Well, not exactly. Right. The solution

455
00:31:12,700 --> 00:31:15,100
for the no kill,

456
00:31:16,060 --> 00:31:19,580
you know, stop killing male chicks is

457
00:31:19,660 --> 00:31:22,860
called in ovo sexing,

458
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:27,020
and I'm sure many people have heard of this and this is what the industry

459
00:31:27,260 --> 00:31:30,950
is saying, this is, you know, the no kill solution

460
00:31:31,510 --> 00:31:34,310
will stop killing male chicks. Well,

461
00:31:35,110 --> 00:31:38,470
Inovo sexing actually determines the sex

462
00:31:38,550 --> 00:31:42,230
of chicken embryos inside the fertilized eggs.

463
00:31:42,730 --> 00:31:46,830
Remember breeder parents, they're mating, they're producing fertilized

464
00:31:47,330 --> 00:31:50,350
eggs, those eggs are gathered and then they

465
00:31:50,850 --> 00:31:53,750
go to hatcheries and this is where the whole process begins.

466
00:31:54,250 --> 00:31:58,030
So taking those fertilized eggs, they go through this

467
00:31:58,530 --> 00:32:01,950
sexing process. And the industry said, okay,

468
00:32:02,450 --> 00:32:05,990
this is the answer. In ovo sexing, we're going to be able to determine the

469
00:32:06,490 --> 00:32:09,670
sex of the chicken embryo before they even

470
00:32:10,170 --> 00:32:14,190
hatch. So between the ages of day 4

471
00:32:14,270 --> 00:32:17,910
to 13 of the incubation period or the incubation

472
00:32:18,410 --> 00:32:21,750
cycle, the eggs are scanned and there's various technologies that can be

473
00:32:22,250 --> 00:32:25,460
used. And during the scanning period, they're sexed.

474
00:32:25,540 --> 00:32:28,900
So they would take the female eggs and they would go back into

475
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,980
the incubators until they're hatched. And that's, you know, we'll talk about that in a

476
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:37,460
minute. Right. But the male eggs then instead

477
00:32:37,540 --> 00:32:41,580
of, you know, waiting for them to hatch on

478
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:46,660
their own, those male eggs are crushed and

479
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:51,130
processed into animal feed, pet food or protein

480
00:32:51,630 --> 00:32:55,410
powder. So, you know, yes, the industry,

481
00:32:55,730 --> 00:32:59,290
the egg producers are looking at this as a more

482
00:32:59,790 --> 00:33:05,410
humane alternative because, you know, they, there's speculation

483
00:33:05,810 --> 00:33:08,930
that during that days 4 to 13

484
00:33:09,890 --> 00:33:13,250
that the pain receptors in the chicken embryos

485
00:33:13,330 --> 00:33:16,950
aren't fully developed. So this is a less painful

486
00:33:17,510 --> 00:33:20,950
approach to this, you know,

487
00:33:21,430 --> 00:33:24,870
sexing. Right. So this is their proposed solution.

488
00:33:25,510 --> 00:33:29,110
So do you think that, sorry, real quick, do you think

489
00:33:29,610 --> 00:33:33,510
that they decided to change that because of animal activists?

490
00:33:34,710 --> 00:33:38,350
Yeah, that's a really good question. I was wondering about that there.

491
00:33:38,850 --> 00:33:42,110
I do think there's pressure. However, I did find an

492
00:33:42,610 --> 00:33:46,470
interesting survey and it was only 11% of

493
00:33:46,970 --> 00:33:50,450
US consumers even know that male

494
00:33:50,950 --> 00:33:54,410
chick calling is a standard practice. Oh, good, you have that data.

495
00:33:54,570 --> 00:33:57,850
So that's great to know because I'm wondering why they would do that.

496
00:33:58,170 --> 00:34:01,610
You know, I'm sure that there. So the other thing

497
00:34:02,110 --> 00:34:05,450
to consider is a lot of this is driven outside of the U.S.

498
00:34:05,690 --> 00:34:08,890
so. Right. European countries have

499
00:34:09,390 --> 00:34:13,250
actually done Away with check their mail.

500
00:34:13,750 --> 00:34:17,979
Check killing. Right. And they've adopted this in ovotes

501
00:34:18,859 --> 00:34:23,019
sexing. So Germany, France and Austria have

502
00:34:23,519 --> 00:34:27,019
already banned the male chick killing.

503
00:34:27,519 --> 00:34:31,259
I'm not going to say calling, I'll say killing. Right. And Italy

504
00:34:31,759 --> 00:34:35,659
is another country that will soon be banning male chick killing.

505
00:34:36,059 --> 00:34:39,979
The US is lagging. Always. Yeah, always lagging.

506
00:34:40,219 --> 00:34:42,540
So it is a great question.

507
00:34:43,340 --> 00:34:45,020
Is it activism? Probably.

508
00:34:47,180 --> 00:34:50,740
Do consumers outside of the U.S. know more? Yes,

509
00:34:51,240 --> 00:34:54,540
I think they do. Right. I think it is more freely reported

510
00:34:54,700 --> 00:34:57,900
on. But yes. So we're, we're behind.

511
00:34:58,060 --> 00:35:01,300
We're way behind. But I guess the question, my question would

512
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,540
be is it really more humane?

513
00:35:04,700 --> 00:35:08,130
Right. You know, were crushing the male

514
00:35:08,630 --> 00:35:11,570
chicks within their, you know, within their egg, the industry.

515
00:35:11,730 --> 00:35:15,130
And then they found a better, maybe they found a better byproduct out of it

516
00:35:15,630 --> 00:35:18,290
too. If they're. Yeah, the protein powder threw me.

517
00:35:18,450 --> 00:35:21,690
Yeah. I was like what protein powder? How do

518
00:35:22,190 --> 00:35:24,690
they label that? It's a, I don't want us to go off topic but I'm

519
00:35:25,190 --> 00:35:28,250
thinking how do they label that? Like crushed male

520
00:35:28,750 --> 00:35:32,530
chick embryo. Yeah. In your protein. It's, it's insane.

521
00:35:32,990 --> 00:35:36,350
Yeah. It's amazing though how they can, you know, how they just

522
00:35:36,590 --> 00:35:39,870
can market everything, anything and everything. They'll use

523
00:35:40,370 --> 00:35:44,150
every little piece of every animal to pocket

524
00:35:44,650 --> 00:35:47,630
on super evil. That is so. Oh my gosh.

525
00:35:48,270 --> 00:35:51,710
But the egg producers use comforting labels and

526
00:35:52,210 --> 00:35:55,430
welfare promises like no kill eggs, cull free eggs,

527
00:35:55,930 --> 00:35:59,070
humane eggs. And they know that people will,

528
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:03,160
consumers will buy. They will buy because again

529
00:36:03,660 --> 00:36:06,560
it's, you know, easing consumers conscience.

530
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,080
So being vegan so long, I haven't looked

531
00:36:10,580 --> 00:36:13,600
at a carton of eggs or in the egg section in forever. So I've,

532
00:36:14,100 --> 00:36:16,720
I was surprised to hear those labels on eggs.

533
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,600
I was like, I've never. So I was like, I want to go over and

534
00:36:21,100 --> 00:36:24,200
look but I can't, I just can't do it. But I was surprised at the

535
00:36:24,700 --> 00:36:27,870
labeling, how much it's changed. You know, when you're, when you're a vegan for so

536
00:36:28,370 --> 00:36:32,670
long, you know, sometimes this is, you know, this is a good refresher for longtime

537
00:36:33,170 --> 00:36:35,350
vegans. But also a lot of new information here too.

538
00:36:36,470 --> 00:36:39,790
It, it, it really is. And, and Nicole, to your

539
00:36:40,290 --> 00:36:44,230
point, like I haven't, you know, like you said, I, I don't even look

540
00:36:44,730 --> 00:36:48,790
at the egg, you know, the egg aisle. I just stay away from it.

541
00:36:49,350 --> 00:36:52,870
But, but it is interesting to know

542
00:36:53,370 --> 00:36:56,510
that, you know, the, these companies, they're all over this.

543
00:36:57,010 --> 00:37:01,450
Like, I mean, yes to the innovative sexing because obviously

544
00:37:01,950 --> 00:37:05,010
if only 11% of US consumers know that.

545
00:37:05,490 --> 00:37:09,130
Right. Chick killing is even a thing, you know,

546
00:37:09,630 --> 00:37:13,010
so there's, there's no impetus for them to, to really move

547
00:37:13,510 --> 00:37:16,530
forward. My question is, and it's really more, you know,

548
00:37:17,410 --> 00:37:21,250
I think of philosophical or ethical is right.

549
00:37:21,410 --> 00:37:24,850
Would anyone consider anovo sexing

550
00:37:25,010 --> 00:37:28,590
a humane alternative to chick killing?

551
00:37:28,670 --> 00:37:31,710
No, because I don't. No, I would, I don't either.

552
00:37:31,870 --> 00:37:35,710
Yeah, it sounds just as terrible, just. As awful and

553
00:37:35,950 --> 00:37:38,990
yeah, yeah, it's, it's just,

554
00:37:39,070 --> 00:37:42,710
it's just heartbreaking. But so now like moving on

555
00:37:43,210 --> 00:37:46,910
to like thinking about, okay, now that her

556
00:37:46,990 --> 00:37:50,710
brother was now either thrown

557
00:37:51,210 --> 00:37:53,950
into a macerator and ground up or her,

558
00:37:54,210 --> 00:37:58,130
you know, brother was crushed before he even hatched.

559
00:37:58,690 --> 00:38:03,250
The little female hen or little chick

560
00:38:03,890 --> 00:38:08,330
now what is it like for her? So they

561
00:38:08,830 --> 00:38:12,130
then continue their way, you know, on the conveyor belts and

562
00:38:13,330 --> 00:38:17,730
they are also then like their parents, deb and

563
00:38:18,230 --> 00:38:22,580
vaccinated. No pain relief, no anesthesia

564
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,420
used, no anesthetics used, just, you know,

565
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:30,820
go through this horrendous process. Right. They are, then the little babies

566
00:38:31,060 --> 00:38:34,180
are, you know, put into boxes and they are

567
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,140
transported to what's called grow out facilities.

568
00:38:38,260 --> 00:38:41,860
They'll remain there for approximately 18 weeks

569
00:38:42,820 --> 00:38:46,340
and then once they reach their targeted body weight,

570
00:38:46,990 --> 00:38:51,470
which is about depending on the breed of the, of the hen,

571
00:38:52,270 --> 00:38:55,550
usually around three and a half to four pounds,

572
00:38:55,870 --> 00:38:59,390
they will be moved to lighthouses. And this is where we

573
00:38:59,890 --> 00:39:02,990
Talked about that 60.5% is

574
00:39:03,550 --> 00:39:06,990
a factory farm and living in battery cages.

575
00:39:07,230 --> 00:39:11,790
Right. They will typically have

576
00:39:12,260 --> 00:39:15,940
a 12 to 18 month production cycle

577
00:39:16,580 --> 00:39:20,060
in the industry. So in the commercial

578
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:24,980
egg industry, typically a, you know, once a

579
00:39:25,220 --> 00:39:28,580
hen or they actually, they're called pullets,

580
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:32,900
once they begin to reach sexual immaturity and start

581
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:37,380
laying eggs, by 12 months

582
00:39:37,980 --> 00:39:40,860
to no more than 18 months,

583
00:39:41,660 --> 00:39:46,500
they've reached their peak egg production. So once

584
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:51,020
they reach that peak egg production, like their parents,

585
00:39:51,180 --> 00:39:54,700
like their brothers, they will be sent to slaughter.

586
00:39:56,220 --> 00:40:00,140
A hen in the egg production, you know,

587
00:40:01,020 --> 00:40:05,650
industry typically lays about an

588
00:40:06,150 --> 00:40:09,810
egg every 25 to 27 hours.

589
00:40:10,850 --> 00:40:14,290
So thinking about that, like just thinking about

590
00:40:14,530 --> 00:40:18,850
what it would be like to lay an egg

591
00:40:19,330 --> 00:40:22,530
almost every single day of your life.

592
00:40:22,930 --> 00:40:27,330
It is unimaginable what that is doing to

593
00:40:27,830 --> 00:40:31,660
her body, to her, her existence. But that's

594
00:40:31,820 --> 00:40:34,620
what we've done. Yep. Right. All the while confined.

595
00:40:35,180 --> 00:40:38,540
Yes. Suffering, being trampled on.

596
00:40:38,700 --> 00:40:42,300
If they're in the cage free, remember that's cage

597
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:46,140
free, doesn't mean anything. Breathing in horrible air,

598
00:40:46,940 --> 00:40:50,820
being fighting with other chickens. I mean this is just. And then in

599
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,780
the cage it just, it's It's a different suffering,

600
00:40:55,020 --> 00:40:58,220
just another kind of suffering. It truly is.

601
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:03,280
It truly is. And so, and, and for all of us to,

602
00:41:03,780 --> 00:41:06,920
like, remember, a chicken

603
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:11,240
can live between six to

604
00:41:11,740 --> 00:41:16,280
eight years. I mean, some live longer. Right. But on average,

605
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,880
a chicken can live six to eight

606
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:25,250
years. Within the egg industry already,

607
00:41:25,330 --> 00:41:27,810
the males are, they're, they're gone.

608
00:41:28,530 --> 00:41:31,850
But a hen will be sent

609
00:41:32,350 --> 00:41:35,810
to slaughter if she survives those conditions at around

610
00:41:36,050 --> 00:41:38,850
15 to 18 months of age. Wow.

611
00:41:39,490 --> 00:41:43,130
So thinking about what we just talked about, you know,

612
00:41:43,630 --> 00:41:47,570
that every 25 to 27 hours she's laying

613
00:41:48,070 --> 00:41:51,500
an egg, um, which she has no control over.

614
00:41:51,820 --> 00:41:54,940
Just, this is what we've done. We've selectively bred

615
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:59,340
these, you know, chickens to lay 301 eggs

616
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:02,300
per year. So what happens to her body?

617
00:42:04,140 --> 00:42:07,700
So the hens suffer actually from

618
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,540
a host of crippling disorders of the most,

619
00:42:11,020 --> 00:42:13,180
most often the reproductive tract,

620
00:42:14,140 --> 00:42:17,360
many of which are fatal. So these include

621
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:19,200
egg binding,

622
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,920
which I'm sure many people have heard, if they're

623
00:42:24,420 --> 00:42:27,520
familiar with hens, that, you know,

624
00:42:28,020 --> 00:42:31,519
oh, my hen is egg bound. And it literally means that

625
00:42:32,019 --> 00:42:35,520
she cannot lay that egg. So it's literally stuck

626
00:42:36,020 --> 00:42:39,280
within her reproductive tract. It can be fatal.

627
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:44,380
Vent prolapse. I, I'm not going to get into too much detail,

628
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,900
but essentially what that means is that her reproductive tract

629
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:53,060
is actually coming out of her vent. So it just

630
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:58,099
from that excessive laying and laying over and over the

631
00:42:58,599 --> 00:43:01,500
vent actually will come out of her body again, another,

632
00:43:01,580 --> 00:43:05,260
you know, potentially fatal situation. So you can imagine

633
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:09,560
if she has vet prolapse in a battery cage. Do you think anybody's

634
00:43:10,060 --> 00:43:13,320
coming to help her? No, no, no. There's no veterinary care.

635
00:43:13,820 --> 00:43:18,200
There's nobody walking around checking on them, talking to them, doing anything soothing

636
00:43:18,700 --> 00:43:22,000
for them. There's not. There's. There's not. And they

637
00:43:22,500 --> 00:43:26,720
also are prone to developing tumors

638
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:31,040
of the oviduct or which is the reproductive tract.

639
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:34,880
And many times those tumors are cancerous.

640
00:43:35,100 --> 00:43:38,380
So of course, then they're, you know, fatal. Right.

641
00:43:39,340 --> 00:43:42,860
There's also something else called egg yolk peritonitis,

642
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:47,660
where the egg actually breaks within the

643
00:43:48,380 --> 00:43:50,460
hen's, you know, reproductive system.

644
00:43:51,660 --> 00:43:55,100
It actually, the infection can affect their abdominal cavities.

645
00:43:55,420 --> 00:43:59,220
There's inflammation, infection, and without treatment, it, it is

646
00:43:59,720 --> 00:44:03,540
most often fatal. And then what was actually

647
00:44:03,700 --> 00:44:07,380
so surprising to me is that

648
00:44:07,460 --> 00:44:11,300
hens can develop osteoporosis. We often all hear

649
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:15,860
about women developing and men as well, but, you know, we develop

650
00:44:16,340 --> 00:44:20,340
or have the propensity to develop osteopenia or osteoporosis.

651
00:44:21,380 --> 00:44:25,340
These hens, because of the excessive, the high

652
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:29,060
metabolic demands of the success of egg laying,

653
00:44:29,850 --> 00:44:33,530
they actually develop osteoporosis. So even at 15

654
00:44:34,030 --> 00:44:38,010
months of age, 18 months of age, they have osteoporosis

655
00:44:38,510 --> 00:44:41,930
and they develop accompanying bone fractures.

656
00:44:42,090 --> 00:44:45,690
Even in confinement in these battery cages, when they're not

657
00:44:46,190 --> 00:44:48,890
able to move around, they're still breaking bones.

658
00:44:49,050 --> 00:44:53,450
Right? So this is what we've done with our selective

659
00:44:53,950 --> 00:44:57,620
breeding because we, as consumers, we have to have eggs,

660
00:44:57,700 --> 00:45:00,860
right? The sad reality,

661
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:06,140
even more heartbreaking, is that even when hens

662
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:09,940
are rescued by farmed animal

663
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:13,620
sanctuaries or, you know, these micro sanctuaries,

664
00:45:15,140 --> 00:45:18,900
they can't be saved. This, these issues

665
00:45:19,460 --> 00:45:22,900
are, you know, they're just because of the selective

666
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:27,430
breeding, the overbreeding, they're genetically

667
00:45:29,430 --> 00:45:32,990
predisposed to so many of these conditions that even

668
00:45:33,490 --> 00:45:36,950
with the best avian vet care, many times

669
00:45:37,030 --> 00:45:40,870
there's no saving the hens from these

670
00:45:41,370 --> 00:45:42,710
conditions. Awful.

671
00:45:44,390 --> 00:45:48,590
So what happens to a

672
00:45:49,090 --> 00:45:53,590
hen when they can no longer produce eggs? So again, we're focused,

673
00:45:53,750 --> 00:45:56,310
as you said from the outset of this, you know,

674
00:45:57,350 --> 00:46:01,830
discussion, it's, you know, life in a commercial egg

675
00:46:02,330 --> 00:46:06,630
industry. And so what happens to then once she can no longer produce

676
00:46:07,130 --> 00:46:10,310
eggs, as I shared earlier,

677
00:46:11,270 --> 00:46:14,790
within that first year to two years,

678
00:46:15,290 --> 00:46:18,870
but in the egg industry, it's usually between 15 to 18 months of

679
00:46:19,370 --> 00:46:23,030
age, when she is already peaked in her egg production,

680
00:46:23,830 --> 00:46:27,110
she will be considered spent, just like her mom and dad

681
00:46:27,670 --> 00:46:31,390
who were, you know, considered spent at 65 weeks of age in

682
00:46:31,890 --> 00:46:35,270
census slaughter. A hen that is confined within

683
00:46:35,770 --> 00:46:39,190
the egg industry, she is considered spent at around 15 to 18

684
00:46:39,690 --> 00:46:43,670
months of age and she will be sent to slaughter. The smaller egg

685
00:46:44,170 --> 00:46:49,090
producers may kill hens by gassing them with CO2

686
00:46:49,330 --> 00:46:52,850
to exfix, asphyxiate them. There's other

687
00:46:53,350 --> 00:46:55,650
methods that they will use which I will not go into.

688
00:46:56,290 --> 00:46:59,490
And typically on the smaller farms and, you know,

689
00:46:59,990 --> 00:47:04,050
if you see a picture of, or a photo of a hen who

690
00:47:04,550 --> 00:47:08,690
is considered spent, and I'm sure everyone who listens has seen

691
00:47:08,930 --> 00:47:12,690
a photo of a hen who was rescued from the egg industry,

692
00:47:13,340 --> 00:47:16,900
Right? They are absolute nothing

693
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:21,740
but, you know, skin bones, hardly have any feathers.

694
00:47:21,820 --> 00:47:25,580
And the most important thing to remember is these

695
00:47:26,060 --> 00:47:30,140
chickens, these hens used by the egg industry, their energy

696
00:47:30,620 --> 00:47:33,420
is not used to build muscle.

697
00:47:34,140 --> 00:47:37,180
Their energy is used to lay eggs,

698
00:47:37,260 --> 00:47:41,530
right? So by the time they are, they've reached peak egg production,

699
00:47:42,030 --> 00:47:46,250
they're 15 to 18 months of age. They are literally skin

700
00:47:46,750 --> 00:47:50,330
and bones. So, you know, they serve no purpose

701
00:47:50,830 --> 00:47:52,410
for human consumption.

702
00:47:53,610 --> 00:47:57,770
They will be many times in the smaller egg producers,

703
00:47:58,270 --> 00:48:01,050
they're Just going to dump them in landfills. They'll compost their bodies.

704
00:48:01,450 --> 00:48:04,570
Right. In the larger commercial egg industry,

705
00:48:04,890 --> 00:48:07,290
the larger egg producers,

706
00:48:08,410 --> 00:48:11,770
they use especially for the cage free,

707
00:48:12,270 --> 00:48:15,290
and I, you know, would use air quotes, the cage free,

708
00:48:15,610 --> 00:48:18,330
they'll use something called catch,

709
00:48:18,830 --> 00:48:22,410
carry, crate. They'll actually bring companies in who

710
00:48:22,810 --> 00:48:26,170
they come in. They so think about like a giant

711
00:48:26,670 --> 00:48:29,050
warehouse with all these hens that,

712
00:48:29,930 --> 00:48:33,690
you know, these cage free environments. Hundreds and upon

713
00:48:34,190 --> 00:48:37,700
hundreds upon hundreds. How do you get, how do you get them out of that

714
00:48:37,780 --> 00:48:40,580
warehouse? So literally they will come in,

715
00:48:40,980 --> 00:48:44,300
they do this whole process at one

716
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:48,980
time. They'll just catch, carry, crate and they will send those

717
00:48:49,220 --> 00:48:53,220
hens to slaughter. They will

718
00:48:53,720 --> 00:48:57,540
then be, their, their bodies will be rendered for pet food or

719
00:48:57,620 --> 00:49:00,180
animal feed products. Right.

720
00:49:01,230 --> 00:49:04,350
So that is the one less profit.

721
00:49:05,150 --> 00:49:08,110
Exactly, exactly. So,

722
00:49:09,070 --> 00:49:12,270
Nicole, before we start talking about backyard

723
00:49:12,770 --> 00:49:16,030
egg production, do you have any questions, you know,

724
00:49:16,110 --> 00:49:17,230
that you'd like to.

725
00:49:19,230 --> 00:49:22,390
I think that you covered everything so perfectly and

726
00:49:22,890 --> 00:49:26,350
I'm happy that you went in so deep into

727
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:31,520
factory farms for, for eggs because it's

728
00:49:32,020 --> 00:49:34,920
so important when you talk about what you're going to talk about next.

729
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:38,280
Backyard chickens. Thank you. Yes, that is,

730
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:42,160
it is so important to just lay the groundwork because again,

731
00:49:42,660 --> 00:49:45,960
as you said, this is the truth. This is all the, you know,

732
00:49:46,460 --> 00:49:49,760
this is the unassailable truth of. And you

733
00:49:50,260 --> 00:49:53,910
need to, you need to know that going in. Exactly. Because we,

734
00:49:54,410 --> 00:49:57,550
we don't want this to, you know, we, we need to educate on that.

735
00:49:57,630 --> 00:50:01,070
Well, go ahead. Yeah, no, I, yeah, I,

736
00:50:01,310 --> 00:50:04,750
so I. Think people think it's just so benign and it's okay to do and,

737
00:50:05,250 --> 00:50:09,070
and. It'S just not so transitioning to

738
00:50:09,550 --> 00:50:13,230
what I had when I did present this at the Compassion

739
00:50:13,730 --> 00:50:17,070
for Animals and the Environment conference. My title was the

740
00:50:17,230 --> 00:50:20,510
Untold Truth Backyard Chickens. And so,

741
00:50:21,310 --> 00:50:24,190
you know, we do, we think of this like, oh, we,

742
00:50:24,690 --> 00:50:27,950
I have chickens in my backyard. I'm using them, you know, for eggs. And it,

743
00:50:28,450 --> 00:50:32,350
you do think of this as like, you know, just this beautiful

744
00:50:32,830 --> 00:50:36,670
alternative to, you know, factory farming

745
00:50:36,750 --> 00:50:40,270
and, you know, beautiful coops and grass

746
00:50:40,350 --> 00:50:43,590
and, you know, outside and, and you

747
00:50:44,090 --> 00:50:48,270
know, for some chickens, maybe it is, you know, this is

748
00:50:48,350 --> 00:50:51,230
kind of how they live their life for a short period of time.

749
00:50:51,310 --> 00:50:54,750
But it's not the reality. And that's what we're

750
00:50:55,250 --> 00:50:58,350
going to talk about for most. So backyard

751
00:50:58,850 --> 00:51:02,470
egg production is becoming more popular. And I do, I do use the

752
00:51:02,970 --> 00:51:06,630
term backyard egg production because to differentiate from factory farming,

753
00:51:07,130 --> 00:51:11,190
right. Backyard, it could be somebody

754
00:51:11,690 --> 00:51:14,830
in the city is keeping chickens for eggs

755
00:51:15,330 --> 00:51:18,650
or it could be someone with 3 acres or 5 acres that

756
00:51:19,150 --> 00:51:23,330
have chickens as well. All different. All different environments.

757
00:51:23,830 --> 00:51:27,890
You know, all different looks in the feels of what that backyard

758
00:51:28,390 --> 00:51:32,330
egg production looks like. But at the end of the day, people are interested.

759
00:51:32,410 --> 00:51:36,490
It's becoming more popular because of increasing egg

760
00:51:36,990 --> 00:51:40,450
prices and also lack of availability. Going back to

761
00:51:40,950 --> 00:51:44,060
what we just talked about a little bit ago about how egg

762
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:48,300
production declined 1% in 2024, and that, you know, there were

763
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:52,940
less hens because of bird flu. Yeah. And they were rationing eggs.

764
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:56,700
I think I've saw like Trader Joe's and different, you know, one per customer.

765
00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:00,060
One dozen, I guess, per customer. I saw things like that. And.

766
00:52:00,300 --> 00:52:04,300
Yeah. And, and, and it even goes back further than,

767
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:08,940
you know, bird flu because egg production declined during

768
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:13,470
COVID which. Right. Really didn't talk about. But so

769
00:52:13,970 --> 00:52:17,390
this has been a sustained issue that people

770
00:52:17,550 --> 00:52:20,990
haven't been able to get to their eggs, you know, buy their eggs.

771
00:52:21,390 --> 00:52:24,310
So it has really contributed.

772
00:52:24,810 --> 00:52:28,950
And we'll talk a little bit about, like, the number of households keeping chickens

773
00:52:29,450 --> 00:52:33,270
for egg production in the backyard in a minute. But the other thing

774
00:52:33,770 --> 00:52:36,830
it gives people is this, you know, sense of control over

775
00:52:37,330 --> 00:52:41,060
the source of eggs for consumption. Right. It also, as we had

776
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:45,940
touched upon, upholds personal or cultural beliefs that keeping

777
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:50,580
hens for eggs in backyard coops, it's a humane alternative

778
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:54,940
to factory farmed eggs, and that it also minimizes suffering

779
00:52:55,180 --> 00:52:58,060
and ensures higher welfare standards.

780
00:52:58,860 --> 00:53:02,780
It also, which I found really interesting is

781
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:07,060
it does foster a sense of community. People that do keep

782
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:11,580
backyard eggs. And I will share. My neighbors have

783
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:15,620
kept chickens in their backyard for eggs. And I do see

784
00:53:15,780 --> 00:53:19,300
neighbors coming over and it's like sharing eggs and

785
00:53:19,540 --> 00:53:24,580
wow, this is, you know, it's just an opportunity, you know, for community

786
00:53:24,740 --> 00:53:27,940
building. Right. Sadly, it's,

787
00:53:28,660 --> 00:53:32,420
you know, at the expense of these individuals. And we'll.

788
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:36,500
We'll talk more about that. But so it does build relationships.

789
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:40,420
It builds relationships not only within the neighborhood or within the community,

790
00:53:40,580 --> 00:53:44,360
but it also builds relationship. Other people who are keeping

791
00:53:44,860 --> 00:53:48,960
chickens in their backyards. Right. So that

792
00:53:49,460 --> 00:53:54,000
said, you know, let's just talk about where

793
00:53:54,500 --> 00:53:56,720
did the hens come from? So,

794
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:01,560
you know, where are people getting the hens that they're keeping in

795
00:54:02,060 --> 00:54:05,360
their backyards for egg production? Well, they're.

796
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:10,930
The chicks are sourced from the same hatcheries as commercial

797
00:54:11,430 --> 00:54:15,170
egg producers. Right. Backyard egg

798
00:54:15,670 --> 00:54:18,570
producers. They can order chicks,

799
00:54:19,850 --> 00:54:23,050
hens, baby hens from mail order.

800
00:54:24,890 --> 00:54:28,490
They can also go to farm supply stores and

801
00:54:28,990 --> 00:54:33,450
go in and buy their little hens to

802
00:54:33,950 --> 00:54:37,840
use for backyard egg production. However, we have to Keep in mind,

803
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:41,600
they're all coming from the same hatcheries.

804
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:45,040
And so the newly hatched females,

805
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:49,120
as I mentioned, they're called pullets, are packed and shipped via

806
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:53,520
the post office. So the little baby chicks

807
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:57,680
can. There they are, packed up and actually

808
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:02,638
shipped. It could be 24,

809
00:55:02,782 --> 00:55:06,150
72 hours or longer. They are without food,

810
00:55:06,650 --> 00:55:11,030
they are without water, they are in temperatures

811
00:55:11,530 --> 00:55:15,230
that are not controlled. So it could be excessive heat, it could be excessive

812
00:55:15,730 --> 00:55:20,630
cold. About 10% of those babies die in transport or

813
00:55:21,130 --> 00:55:24,630
in transit. And we have to remember that

814
00:55:25,130 --> 00:55:28,800
every one of those checks came from tormented breeder

815
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:32,280
parents. Right? So it's all the

816
00:55:32,780 --> 00:55:36,920
same system. They're all coming from the same oppressive

817
00:55:37,420 --> 00:55:40,000
and exploitative systems.

818
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:45,320
So what is the real cost of egg production, we might be asking

819
00:55:45,820 --> 00:55:49,440
ourselves at this point, or backyard egg production? I just should clarify,

820
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:53,640
right? Today, about 12 million US households

821
00:55:54,140 --> 00:55:57,940
keep backyard chickens, and that's actually up. So thinking back

822
00:55:58,500 --> 00:56:01,220
to our crazy. Just talked about,

823
00:56:01,780 --> 00:56:06,180
that's up 28% from 2023.

824
00:56:07,380 --> 00:56:11,300
So, yes, we've had a decline in egg product, eggs produced,

825
00:56:11,540 --> 00:56:14,660
right. In 2024, but 2023,

826
00:56:15,060 --> 00:56:18,500
we've had a decline in the number of hens that were actually

827
00:56:18,580 --> 00:56:22,220
survived to the end of 2024 over

828
00:56:22,720 --> 00:56:26,500
2023, but we've had a 28% increase

829
00:56:26,580 --> 00:56:29,460
in the number of households that are keeping backyard chickens.

830
00:56:31,140 --> 00:56:33,700
So are there any differences?

831
00:56:34,660 --> 00:56:38,340
Actually, there's not. So we know they're coming from the same hatcheries.

832
00:56:38,820 --> 00:56:43,020
The hens that are kept in your backyard for backyard

833
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:46,260
egg production, they have the same health and welfare issues,

834
00:56:46,740 --> 00:56:50,300
right? They suffer from diseases. They have parasites. They have

835
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:54,230
the reproductive issues we touched upon. They have other issues

836
00:56:54,390 --> 00:56:57,950
that commonly occur. They have injuries. They have something

837
00:56:58,450 --> 00:57:01,790
called bumblefoot, where they actually get these wounds on the bottom

838
00:57:02,290 --> 00:57:06,150
of their feet, very common. There's also

839
00:57:06,310 --> 00:57:09,910
environmental and management challenges. So someone

840
00:57:10,390 --> 00:57:13,750
decides, oh, I'm going to keep chickens in my backyard.

841
00:57:14,710 --> 00:57:17,910
You know, this. It just sounds so great. And.

842
00:57:18,310 --> 00:57:22,270
But what they don't consider is they have to safeguard those hens from

843
00:57:22,770 --> 00:57:27,030
predators. There's predators on the ground, there's predators overhead,

844
00:57:27,530 --> 00:57:31,470
you know, above them. Often the hens are

845
00:57:31,630 --> 00:57:35,110
killed or just severely

846
00:57:35,610 --> 00:57:39,150
injured by predators. Right? And you don't know until it's

847
00:57:39,650 --> 00:57:43,550
too late, until a predator has gotten into your coop and has

848
00:57:43,630 --> 00:57:47,390
killed all of your hens. You don't even realize waste

849
00:57:47,890 --> 00:57:51,350
management is a problem. You know, many of the issues that

850
00:57:52,470 --> 00:57:55,510
affect hens in backyard coops,

851
00:57:55,750 --> 00:57:58,950
it does come from the need to

852
00:57:59,110 --> 00:58:02,630
just continually keep the coop clean,

853
00:58:03,110 --> 00:58:06,830
changing out, you know, the straw or

854
00:58:07,330 --> 00:58:11,230
whatever. Bedding you're using, people don't realize all

855
00:58:11,730 --> 00:58:16,490
of the, you know, the investment, the time, the effort that goes into keeping

856
00:58:16,570 --> 00:58:20,010
the chickens as healthy as possible. Right. And then

857
00:58:20,510 --> 00:58:23,610
also we mentioned that the stress from the weather.

858
00:58:23,690 --> 00:58:27,770
You know, many of these backyard coops are not climate controlled.

859
00:58:27,930 --> 00:58:31,770
Right. They, you know, the chickens are protected from frostbite,

860
00:58:32,270 --> 00:58:35,930
they're not protected from heat stress, and they're very vulnerable.

861
00:58:36,090 --> 00:58:39,810
So often the chickens, the hens do

862
00:58:40,310 --> 00:58:44,590
suffer from, you know, these extremes in weather

863
00:58:45,090 --> 00:58:49,470
conditions. Right. And then also thinking about, like, the factors

864
00:58:49,790 --> 00:58:53,470
that impact just humans. So chickens,

865
00:58:53,970 --> 00:58:57,470
I don't know if people have heard, but when chickens lay eggs, they are,

866
00:58:57,970 --> 00:58:59,310
they're very, very noisy.

867
00:59:00,830 --> 00:59:03,670
If by chance you end up with a rooster,

868
00:59:04,170 --> 00:59:07,550
which can happen, the sexing

869
00:59:07,630 --> 00:59:11,230
process isn't completely, you know, perfected.

870
00:59:11,390 --> 00:59:14,810
So often if you are buying

871
00:59:14,890 --> 00:59:18,450
your chickens or your hens through mail order or, you know,

872
00:59:18,950 --> 00:59:22,770
even the farm supply stores, you may end up with a, a, a little

873
00:59:23,270 --> 00:59:26,530
baby rooster. You aren't going to know until

874
00:59:27,030 --> 00:59:30,490
they start crowing and not laying eggs. So you could be,

875
00:59:30,990 --> 00:59:34,410
you could end up with, you know, a, a rooster

876
00:59:34,910 --> 00:59:38,770
in your flock. And then also some of the other concerns is,

877
00:59:39,270 --> 00:59:43,110
you know, there are zoonotic diseases that can be transferred

878
00:59:43,610 --> 00:59:47,590
from hens to, to humans who are caring for them.

879
00:59:48,150 --> 00:59:51,430
They can be bacterial infections, they can be viral infections,

880
00:59:51,510 --> 00:59:53,910
even, you know, avian flu, for example.

881
00:59:54,470 --> 00:59:57,750
Um, you know, so there are just so many considerations

882
00:59:57,910 --> 01:00:01,190
when people jump into this. Right. They, they don't

883
01:00:01,690 --> 01:00:04,790
know what they're doing. Just like when people buy other animals right there.

884
01:00:05,290 --> 01:00:08,110
But there's lack of veterinary care because most, a lot of veterinary,

885
01:00:08,260 --> 01:00:12,180
veterinary offices do not deal with chickens. I know you, you have some information

886
01:00:12,340 --> 01:00:15,100
on that and abandonment. Yeah,

887
01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:19,220
because people get in over their head and then they just drop these chickens

888
01:00:20,260 --> 01:00:23,780
anywhere. Right. Or try to sell them on Craigslist or something to.

889
01:00:24,260 --> 01:00:27,980
Yeah. To, to just dispose of them out of their lives because they've took

890
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:31,620
on too much. So again, the animal loses. Always,

891
01:00:32,100 --> 01:00:35,560
Always the animal losing. And, you know, and, and we do.

892
01:00:36,060 --> 01:00:39,600
I know you and I have discussed this. Like, I don't,

893
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:44,240
I don't look at the people who have, you know, have the

894
01:00:44,740 --> 01:00:48,720
hens in their backyard for egg production. I look at them, I don't,

895
01:00:49,220 --> 01:00:52,800
I'm not, I don't want to say that I'm judging because they're not informed.

896
01:00:53,300 --> 01:00:57,240
To your point. They're not informed. It's just like you said, buying a

897
01:00:57,740 --> 01:01:01,410
dog or buying an animal on a pet store, Petster's not telling them.

898
01:01:01,910 --> 01:01:05,530
Oh, you know, this is a lifetime commitment. Oh, you do know that veterinary quest

899
01:01:06,030 --> 01:01:09,450
is going to be so high, right? Oh, you do know that there's like specific

900
01:01:09,690 --> 01:01:13,370
care needs that you're not even equipped for. So it's the same thing.

901
01:01:13,610 --> 01:01:17,050
People are jumping into this and they don't realize

902
01:01:17,210 --> 01:01:20,730
what they're getting themselves into. Right. So the

903
01:01:21,230 --> 01:01:25,010
real cost of backyard egg production, as you just

904
01:01:25,510 --> 01:01:29,110
mentioned, there are some. So many hens and roosters

905
01:01:29,610 --> 01:01:34,030
that are being surrendered either either to shelters, rescues and

906
01:01:34,530 --> 01:01:38,630
farmed animal sanctuaries. If you are following farmed animal sanctuaries,

907
01:01:39,130 --> 01:01:42,510
you see that so many of them have closed intake because they

908
01:01:42,590 --> 01:01:46,670
cannot. We can't rescue ourselves out of this. We cannot.

909
01:01:46,750 --> 01:01:50,910
Right? And so it is just so unfair to the rescues and shelters

910
01:01:51,410 --> 01:01:54,920
and, you know, the sanctuaries to, you know,

911
01:01:55,420 --> 01:01:58,760
oh, it's, you're. You've got to help me. You know, you've got to take this

912
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:02,120
chicken because. Right. I'm in over my head. No,

913
01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:05,680
you know, what I also found is that sadly,

914
01:02:06,180 --> 01:02:10,320
roosters make up a large number of surrenders

915
01:02:10,820 --> 01:02:14,200
to, you know, sanctuaries and, or abandoned.

916
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:18,200
You know, so many chick our hens and, and roosters

917
01:02:18,590 --> 01:02:21,230
are just abandoned especially. You know,

918
01:02:21,870 --> 01:02:25,430
I just. As a quick aside, my son

919
01:02:25,930 --> 01:02:30,670
and his partner live in Philadelphia

920
01:02:30,990 --> 01:02:34,030
and they were actually walking their dog and a little,

921
01:02:34,670 --> 01:02:38,350
little hen walked up to them and she basically self

922
01:02:38,850 --> 01:02:42,590
surrendered and she came from a

923
01:02:43,230 --> 01:02:46,020
backyard chicken, you know,

924
01:02:47,540 --> 01:02:50,420
egg producers, right in the city.

925
01:02:50,660 --> 01:02:54,340
And basically that backyard

926
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:58,140
or wherever they were keeping them basically was done. They were done with them.

927
01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:02,260
And so they let them go in the city. Right. So my son and his

928
01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:06,780
partner did rescue a little hen. But the thing is, you know,

929
01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:11,010
so it's. They're surrendered, they're abandoned, or even

930
01:03:11,330 --> 01:03:14,210
worse, they're killed. I mean, people.

931
01:03:14,530 --> 01:03:18,330
There are no retirement homes other than thank goodness for farmed

932
01:03:18,830 --> 01:03:22,730
animal sanctuaries, micro sanctuaries. There's no retirement homes for chickens.

933
01:03:23,230 --> 01:03:27,130
Once hens, once they stop laying. So that is

934
01:03:27,630 --> 01:03:31,170
the sad reality that, you know, the hens still suffer,

935
01:03:31,670 --> 01:03:34,930
whether they're in a factory farm or they're in a backyard setting,

936
01:03:35,250 --> 01:03:39,010
they are still suffering. Right. We can't stop that.

937
01:03:39,810 --> 01:03:43,090
As we mentioned the, you know,

938
01:03:43,590 --> 01:03:48,050
backyard communities, I even found a community

939
01:03:48,370 --> 01:03:52,290
online where they're so desperate

940
01:03:52,369 --> 01:03:56,210
for insight into how to care for

941
01:03:56,290 --> 01:03:59,890
chickens or hens in, you know, in their backyards

942
01:04:00,610 --> 01:04:04,060
because avian vet care is not readily

943
01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:08,380
available. It's also highly expensive. It could be cost prohibitive.

944
01:04:08,780 --> 01:04:12,540
So they turn to each other for advice,

945
01:04:12,700 --> 01:04:15,900
you know, do it yourself vet care. And again,

946
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:19,580
not faulting these individuals, but at the end of the day,

947
01:04:20,860 --> 01:04:23,660
the animals, the hens are suffering, right? So,

948
01:04:23,980 --> 01:04:26,860
you know, education is key here. Don't do it.

949
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:31,020
Key. You know, just like when we educate for rabbits, they're a 10 year

950
01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:35,050
commitment. They're not an Easter gift. The same thing.

951
01:04:35,550 --> 01:04:39,090
And I know chicks are sometimes given as Easter gifts as well. Yeah,

952
01:04:39,590 --> 01:04:43,650
it's the same thing. So to really like in starting

953
01:04:44,150 --> 01:04:47,770
to wrap this up, so looking at what are the

954
01:04:48,330 --> 01:04:51,570
similarities between commercial egg producers

955
01:04:52,070 --> 01:04:56,330
and backyard egg producers, right? Both prioritize

956
01:04:56,490 --> 01:04:59,730
egg production, right? You would not

957
01:05:00,230 --> 01:05:03,970
be keeping hens in your backyard if you didn't

958
01:05:04,470 --> 01:05:08,040
want them for the eggs that they're producing, right?

959
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:12,280
To maintain consistent production, older hens

960
01:05:12,360 --> 01:05:16,080
must be replaced by younger hens. We've already talked about that.

961
01:05:16,580 --> 01:05:20,760
By 12 months to 18 months, that hen,

962
01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:24,760
her, she's already peaked her egg production.

963
01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:30,080
She now will start to decline the number of eggs

964
01:05:30,580 --> 01:05:34,530
that she'll produce. So what are you going to do? Are you going to keep

965
01:05:35,030 --> 01:05:38,330
hens that aren't producing eggs or are you going to get rid

966
01:05:38,830 --> 01:05:41,330
of them? Right. It's the same issue.

967
01:05:42,770 --> 01:05:46,690
Both backyard and commercial egg producers,

968
01:05:47,190 --> 01:05:51,090
they see roosters as byproducts. Roosters cannot produce

969
01:05:51,590 --> 01:05:54,850
eggs. Roosters are often neglected, abandoned or killed.

970
01:05:55,730 --> 01:05:59,470
And we have to remind ourselves that the

971
01:05:59,970 --> 01:06:03,990
hens come from the same hatcheries that

972
01:06:04,490 --> 01:06:07,430
support male chick killing,

973
01:06:07,750 --> 01:06:11,390
right? And then we also have

974
01:06:11,890 --> 01:06:15,430
to consider that both the commercial egg and the backyard egg

975
01:06:15,930 --> 01:06:18,990
producers, when hens cease to lay

976
01:06:19,490 --> 01:06:22,550
eggs, the cost of their upkeep becomes a detriment.

977
01:06:23,110 --> 01:06:27,030
With limited or no access to avian vet care, hens suffer

978
01:06:27,530 --> 01:06:31,730
from untreated or undert. Hens who

979
01:06:32,230 --> 01:06:36,210
no longer meet egg production quotas are routinely killed,

980
01:06:36,370 --> 01:06:39,490
right? And so,

981
01:06:39,730 --> 01:06:43,210
you know, when we look at this from the ethical aspects of

982
01:06:43,710 --> 01:06:46,130
it, backyard egg production, right?

983
01:06:46,450 --> 01:06:50,210
It reduces, like factory farming, it reduces

984
01:06:50,710 --> 01:06:54,330
the hens to units of production. It can't

985
01:06:54,830 --> 01:06:58,420
get any more cold and calculating than that, right?

986
01:06:58,920 --> 01:07:02,740
A hen's value is viewed solely through the lens of

987
01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:07,460
how many eggs she can produce. It also supports

988
01:07:07,620 --> 01:07:10,740
whether it's commercial or backyard.

989
01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:14,300
You're still ex, you're still supporting animal

990
01:07:14,800 --> 01:07:18,620
exploitation, right? Hens are a product of selective breeding that forces

991
01:07:19,120 --> 01:07:22,380
them to lay far more eggs than a wild chicken would

992
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:26,190
naturally produce. The consumer benefits from a

993
01:07:26,690 --> 01:07:30,350
system that induces hens to undergo a natural reproductive

994
01:07:30,850 --> 01:07:35,030
processes. And it also, by keeping hens

995
01:07:35,530 --> 01:07:39,390
in the backyard, in your backyard for egg production, you're. We are

996
01:07:39,470 --> 01:07:43,110
perpetuating the humane myth, right?

997
01:07:43,610 --> 01:07:47,310
Creating a false sense of ethical consumption. And this

998
01:07:47,470 --> 01:07:52,590
to me, like, when I, when I think about, like, just summarizing

999
01:07:53,090 --> 01:07:56,390
all of this, consuming eggs from any

1000
01:07:56,470 --> 01:08:00,230
source supports a practice that is fundamentally

1001
01:08:00,790 --> 01:08:02,950
rooted in exploitation.

1002
01:08:03,750 --> 01:08:07,470
Absolutely, absolutely. And I, I,

1003
01:08:07,970 --> 01:08:11,670
and I. Is there, are there vegans, do you think that are okay

1004
01:08:12,170 --> 01:08:15,750
with backyard chickens or that keep chickens? Is there, like a subset of.

1005
01:08:17,360 --> 01:08:20,720
I've heard, like, some philosophical, like, conversations, you know,

1006
01:08:21,220 --> 01:08:24,560
like, well, my neighbor has eggs and he eats them, and I'm okay

1007
01:08:25,060 --> 01:08:29,120
with that because they're in the backyard. But as you educated

1008
01:08:29,620 --> 01:08:33,320
us all today, that they still come from that same system, it's still

1009
01:08:33,820 --> 01:08:37,440
supporting that factory farm system, that exploitation.

1010
01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:41,520
That is such a great question, Nicole. And I will share

1011
01:08:41,760 --> 01:08:46,549
that. I have had conversations in the past with vegans,

1012
01:08:47,049 --> 01:08:51,629
I mean, people, you know, I truly respect, but that they were defending backyard

1013
01:08:52,129 --> 01:08:55,709
egg production. And I just,

1014
01:08:56,109 --> 01:08:59,429
I was taken aback. It wasn't, you know, one or two

1015
01:08:59,929 --> 01:09:03,989
people, it was actually a number of them because

1016
01:09:04,489 --> 01:09:07,309
they said, like, oh, but look, you know, look at,

1017
01:09:07,809 --> 01:09:10,749
look, they're kept in the backyard and look how, you know, they have,

1018
01:09:11,210 --> 01:09:15,010
they were allowed to go out in the backyard and, you know,

1019
01:09:15,510 --> 01:09:19,290
just forage and, you know, and I'm

1020
01:09:19,790 --> 01:09:23,290
like, no, it's all the same system of exploitation.

1021
01:09:23,850 --> 01:09:27,330
You are keeping that system going. Absolutely.

1022
01:09:27,830 --> 01:09:31,210
You are supporting that system of

1023
01:09:31,710 --> 01:09:35,850
animal exploitation, of violence, because remember

1024
01:09:36,350 --> 01:09:39,960
that they all end up, right, either dead

1025
01:09:40,120 --> 01:09:44,280
because of all the health issues or

1026
01:09:44,780 --> 01:09:48,200
dead because of, you know, predators, etc.

1027
01:09:48,700 --> 01:09:52,120
Right. Or dead because they can no longer produce eggs and they

1028
01:09:52,620 --> 01:09:55,640
are sent to slaughter or they are killed. So,

1029
01:09:56,520 --> 01:10:00,000
no, it's all the same. And that's where we

1030
01:10:00,500 --> 01:10:03,880
just have to just stop normalizing,

1031
01:10:04,630 --> 01:10:08,310
looking at chickens as a food

1032
01:10:08,810 --> 01:10:12,230
source or any animals as a food source for humans.

1033
01:10:12,310 --> 01:10:15,270
And that's why this is so important and why I wanted you to have,

1034
01:10:15,350 --> 01:10:18,870
have come on the podcast, because I think it's such

1035
01:10:19,030 --> 01:10:22,270
a. I think it's an important topic that

1036
01:10:22,770 --> 01:10:26,870
people don't really think about. You know, they think, well, they're probably okay in

1037
01:10:27,370 --> 01:10:30,110
the backyard, you know, or my neighbor, and they look like they take good care

1038
01:10:30,610 --> 01:10:34,890
of them. And I just think that even vegans

1039
01:10:35,390 --> 01:10:38,530
can romanticize some of that too. Well, they're okay,

1040
01:10:38,690 --> 01:10:42,410
but not thinking about where they, where they're coming from and

1041
01:10:42,910 --> 01:10:45,730
where they're going and what happens when they stop producing eggs and they're going to

1042
01:10:46,230 --> 01:10:48,810
get new chickens, you know, are you paying attention to the neighbor? Are those the

1043
01:10:49,310 --> 01:10:52,690
same chickens that they've had for the past seven years they've been doing this?

1044
01:10:53,190 --> 01:10:56,610
Probably not. They're new chickens. Involved. And what are they doing with the

1045
01:10:57,110 --> 01:11:01,440
other chickens? Are they abandoning them? Are they selling them online or killing

1046
01:11:01,940 --> 01:11:04,480
them or what? You know, they're not going to tell you what they're doing.

1047
01:11:04,640 --> 01:11:08,440
They're, they're not, they're not going to tell us. And you

1048
01:11:08,940 --> 01:11:11,520
know, and for us, and thankfully, as, you know,

1049
01:11:12,020 --> 01:11:16,000
vegans, we do, you know, we have stopped looking at animals

1050
01:11:16,500 --> 01:11:20,400
as a source for food for humans, but, you know,

1051
01:11:20,900 --> 01:11:24,920
we do for our non vegan listeners that we

1052
01:11:25,420 --> 01:11:29,690
have to look at, you know, chickens are sentient beings and

1053
01:11:29,930 --> 01:11:33,810
change the paradigm that they are not food

1054
01:11:34,310 --> 01:11:37,770
sources for humans in any way, shape or form.

1055
01:11:38,170 --> 01:11:42,330
Even though you might think of a chicken used or a hen used for egg

1056
01:11:42,830 --> 01:11:46,250
production. Oh, well, we're not eating her flesh.

1057
01:11:46,810 --> 01:11:50,730
We're using her to produce something for our consumption.

1058
01:11:50,890 --> 01:11:53,690
So we are. And what happens to her in the process?

1059
01:11:54,170 --> 01:11:58,230
Right, exactly. You know, choosing to consume eggs from chickens

1060
01:11:58,730 --> 01:12:01,910
from any source to commercial egg production or backyard,

1061
01:12:02,310 --> 01:12:04,470
we are validating their suffering.

1062
01:12:05,670 --> 01:12:09,710
It requires their suffering. And we

1063
01:12:10,210 --> 01:12:13,830
are either indirectly or directly.

1064
01:12:14,070 --> 01:12:17,430
Right. Continuing their suffering. Right.

1065
01:12:17,510 --> 01:12:21,470
Chickens may not grasp the fact that they were intentionally brought

1066
01:12:21,970 --> 01:12:25,940
into a highly exploitative system by humans for humans

1067
01:12:26,440 --> 01:12:30,140
benefit, but we do. Right. Hens may

1068
01:12:30,640 --> 01:12:34,260
not realize that the fertilized egg from which they came resulted from harsh,

1069
01:12:34,660 --> 01:12:38,260
unnatural confinement and forced breeding, but we do.

1070
01:12:39,140 --> 01:12:42,500
Hens may not know that every single life lost due to the

1071
01:12:43,000 --> 01:12:46,740
violent system is factored into the cost of every egg consumed,

1072
01:12:47,140 --> 01:12:50,910
but we do. And so once we know,

1073
01:12:51,710 --> 01:12:54,270
we, it's incumbent upon us to do better.

1074
01:12:54,990 --> 01:12:57,230
And so we can do better.

1075
01:12:57,710 --> 01:13:01,230
And you know, we know, Nicole, that we have

1076
01:13:01,730 --> 01:13:05,710
to start by eliminating eggs from our diets. It is that

1077
01:13:06,210 --> 01:13:09,750
straightforward and we can do it. And we do it

1078
01:13:10,250 --> 01:13:13,790
as vegans. We do do it, but. Right. I had a vegan bakery.

1079
01:13:13,950 --> 01:13:17,670
It's easy. You do not need eggs to bake

1080
01:13:18,070 --> 01:13:21,350
anything. You can make virtually everything without eggs.

1081
01:13:21,850 --> 01:13:25,470
It's not necessary. Yeah. And there's so many alternatives out

1082
01:13:25,970 --> 01:13:30,230
there and so many resources available to us. And we

1083
01:13:30,310 --> 01:13:33,510
have choices. Right. The hens do not.

1084
01:13:33,750 --> 01:13:37,510
Absolutely. So we can do better and that's

1085
01:13:38,010 --> 01:13:38,790
what we must do better.

1086
01:13:41,270 --> 01:13:44,850
So at the end, at the end of your talk in,

1087
01:13:46,450 --> 01:13:50,730
at Bucks County Community College, you talked about some

1088
01:13:51,230 --> 01:13:54,570
of those chickens that you had that were really near and dear to

1089
01:13:55,070 --> 01:13:58,090
your heart. So can you, can you share something about that with us? Yes,

1090
01:13:58,590 --> 01:14:02,530
absolutely. And so a very dear friend of mine,

1091
01:14:03,730 --> 01:14:07,010
she's a animal rights activist, she's vegan.

1092
01:14:07,090 --> 01:14:09,410
She and she and her husband,

1093
01:14:11,020 --> 01:14:16,140
through the goodness of their, their hearts, they Opened their home to rescue

1094
01:14:16,640 --> 01:14:21,180
chickens. Just a small, you know, small little family.

1095
01:14:21,260 --> 01:14:24,380
I'm not, I'm not going to say flop. Their family of,

1096
01:14:24,460 --> 01:14:28,380
of hens and a couple of roosters.

1097
01:14:28,460 --> 01:14:31,940
And through this, actually some of

1098
01:14:32,440 --> 01:14:35,820
them, she and I had rescued together. And,

1099
01:14:36,310 --> 01:14:39,910
um, what I have

1100
01:14:40,230 --> 01:14:44,630
experienced, you know, through her and her husband's generosity

1101
01:14:44,710 --> 01:14:48,590
is knowing them, knowing these

1102
01:14:49,090 --> 01:14:53,150
individuals. I had mentioned the little hen

1103
01:14:53,650 --> 01:14:57,350
that walked up to my son and his partner in

1104
01:14:57,850 --> 01:14:59,910
Philadelphia, and her name was Franny.

1105
01:15:01,110 --> 01:15:04,320
My son and his,

1106
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:07,840
his girlfriend said, you know, they named her. Yeah.

1107
01:15:07,920 --> 01:15:11,400
And so my dear friend said, yes,

1108
01:15:11,900 --> 01:15:15,360
Suzanne, if you can quarantine Franny for a couple

1109
01:15:15,860 --> 01:15:19,520
weeks, then I will welcome her into our family. And so we did.

1110
01:15:20,020 --> 01:15:23,280
My husband and I had Franny here. And from

1111
01:15:23,760 --> 01:15:28,080
that experience, like, I just, I just absolutely

1112
01:15:28,580 --> 01:15:32,390
grew to love her. And I

1113
01:15:32,890 --> 01:15:36,470
actually even considered, I said to my friend, if it doesn't work out,

1114
01:15:36,970 --> 01:15:40,670
like, if your chicken family doesn't accept her, my husband and

1115
01:15:41,170 --> 01:15:45,270
I, we're gonna keep her. That's not an ideal situation for

1116
01:15:45,590 --> 01:15:49,270
a hen. They really

1117
01:15:49,770 --> 01:15:54,110
do because they are prey animals. They do feel comfort and,

1118
01:15:54,610 --> 01:15:57,950
you know, in community. So it's best for. With other hens.

1119
01:15:58,510 --> 01:16:01,830
But we grew to love her as well as the

1120
01:16:02,330 --> 01:16:04,510
other chickens. Juniper,

1121
01:16:04,990 --> 01:16:09,070
Daisy, Rose, Violet, Petunia and Blossom,

1122
01:16:09,550 --> 01:16:13,670
they were all rescued from, you know, animal agriculture,

1123
01:16:14,170 --> 01:16:17,470
from egg industry, some commercial, some backyard.

1124
01:16:18,110 --> 01:16:21,950
And the sad reality is that my friend

1125
01:16:22,030 --> 01:16:24,110
who opened her home to them,

1126
01:16:25,500 --> 01:16:29,060
she actually took them for expert

1127
01:16:29,560 --> 01:16:33,340
avian veterinary care, gave them absolutely

1128
01:16:33,420 --> 01:16:36,940
everything possible to help them live, you know,

1129
01:16:38,700 --> 01:16:42,140
to the peak of their, you know, health and well being.

1130
01:16:42,220 --> 01:16:46,140
And yet, despite everything that she and her husband

1131
01:16:46,640 --> 01:16:50,660
did, they all died as a result of either reproductive

1132
01:16:51,160 --> 01:16:54,240
cancers, lymphomas, just,

1133
01:16:54,720 --> 01:16:58,160
you know, genetic predisposition that we can't,

1134
01:16:58,660 --> 01:17:02,240
modern medicine can't change. We can't change even, even through nutrition.

1135
01:17:02,320 --> 01:17:05,120
Right? So the sad reality is, you know,

1136
01:17:06,240 --> 01:17:09,960
these animals, these hens, yes, they were rescued,

1137
01:17:10,460 --> 01:17:13,440
but they still ended up dying.

1138
01:17:13,840 --> 01:17:17,680
The same, you know, conditions that

1139
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:21,360
because of selective breeding, that all the hens are, you know,

1140
01:17:21,860 --> 01:17:24,610
predisposed to, sadly. So I did,

1141
01:17:25,410 --> 01:17:29,210
I did show, I did a collage of their photos

1142
01:17:29,710 --> 01:17:33,250
and I did close with just a little,

1143
01:17:33,890 --> 01:17:37,450
just some thoughts and I

1144
01:17:37,950 --> 01:17:41,410
called it, we will never forget you. Their lives

1145
01:17:41,490 --> 01:17:44,690
mattered to them. Their lives mattered to

1146
01:17:45,190 --> 01:17:48,770
their family and friends. Their lives mattered to me.

1147
01:17:49,530 --> 01:17:52,170
Their lives should matter to all of us.

1148
01:17:52,730 --> 01:17:55,610
I am vegan for them and for all animals.

1149
01:17:56,410 --> 01:17:59,770
Beautiful. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for,

1150
01:18:00,170 --> 01:18:03,210
for doing a deep dive into this and,

1151
01:18:03,690 --> 01:18:06,730
and using this to Educate everybody.

1152
01:18:07,290 --> 01:18:11,170
Everyone needs to hear this. People that are eating eggs, people that aren't

1153
01:18:11,670 --> 01:18:15,050
vegan yet, people that are vegan. I learned a lot from it.

1154
01:18:15,340 --> 01:18:18,820
It's just, it's something that really needs to be said. Especially like I said,

1155
01:18:19,320 --> 01:18:22,420
the eggs are in the news, right? You can't, the,

1156
01:18:22,920 --> 01:18:26,140
the egg price. People complain about egg prices and they can't get eggs and

1157
01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:30,540
all of that. And people need to, to know it needs to be talked about

1158
01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:34,540
and out there in the public. So thank you so much. And those chickens

1159
01:18:35,040 --> 01:18:38,300
were the lucky ones, even for a short period of time to be loved by,

1160
01:18:38,380 --> 01:18:41,900
by, by people and your friend and you and

1161
01:18:42,300 --> 01:18:46,300
everyone else around them, even though. So let's

1162
01:18:46,800 --> 01:18:50,660
talk about a little bit about Pennsylvania Voters for Animals before we go

1163
01:18:50,740 --> 01:18:54,180
because you guys have been doing great work in a short period of time

1164
01:18:54,740 --> 01:18:58,180
and I know you recently had a victory. So I'd like to talk about that

1165
01:18:58,680 --> 01:19:02,180
really quick. And Nicole, and thank you. I mean

1166
01:19:04,100 --> 01:19:06,940
your platform for, you know,

1167
01:19:07,440 --> 01:19:10,660
for my organization for the hens,

1168
01:19:11,160 --> 01:19:14,660
most importantly for all the animals. The fact that you're giving

1169
01:19:15,620 --> 01:19:19,180
us an opportunity to share, you know, just what

1170
01:19:19,680 --> 01:19:23,380
we know to help inform others to be

1171
01:19:23,880 --> 01:19:27,380
a voice for the animals. I mean, we always say,

1172
01:19:27,540 --> 01:19:31,260
you know, I don't like to use the term that, you know, animals are voiceless

1173
01:19:31,760 --> 01:19:35,580
because they're not right. We just don't listen. And so what you're

1174
01:19:36,080 --> 01:19:39,780
doing is you're giving a platform for us to

1175
01:19:40,280 --> 01:19:44,320
speak on the, in behalf of the animals. And I truly

1176
01:19:44,820 --> 01:19:50,000
appreciate everything you're doing. You know, groups like yours,

1177
01:19:51,840 --> 01:19:56,480
it inspired me to actually work

1178
01:19:56,980 --> 01:20:00,800
to develop Pennsylvania Voters for Animals. I was so fortunate to

1179
01:20:01,280 --> 01:20:04,640
find other individuals who were on

1180
01:20:05,140 --> 01:20:08,480
board. And so we worked to,

1181
01:20:09,640 --> 01:20:12,880
you know, form Pennsylvania Voters for Animals. We are

1182
01:20:13,380 --> 01:20:16,680
a 501 for nonprofit based in Pennsylvania.

1183
01:20:16,760 --> 01:20:20,440
And just quickly, most of us know

1184
01:20:20,520 --> 01:20:23,960
501C3. We are actually a 501C4.

1185
01:20:24,460 --> 01:20:28,600
And what that means is according to the IRS, we are a social welfare organization.

1186
01:20:29,100 --> 01:20:33,480
We are tapped tax exempt as 501c3 nonprofit.

1187
01:20:34,120 --> 01:20:38,960
But what we can do is we can actually lobby

1188
01:20:39,460 --> 01:20:42,760
or advocate for stronger legislation. So for

1189
01:20:43,260 --> 01:20:46,920
us, our focus is to lobby or advocate

1190
01:20:47,420 --> 01:20:51,040
for stronger animal protection legislation across Pennsylvania.

1191
01:20:52,000 --> 01:20:56,160
Our, you know, that's our, our mission, our vision really

1192
01:20:56,240 --> 01:20:59,760
is to end animal exploitation. Like we

1193
01:20:59,920 --> 01:21:03,280
love to see and hope to see the end.

1194
01:21:03,680 --> 01:21:07,590
And I love that you lead with the end and not to make

1195
01:21:08,090 --> 01:21:11,310
things better or welfare. It's the end. And I think that's the.

1196
01:21:11,390 --> 01:21:14,510
You have to educate with that and you have to move Forward and

1197
01:21:15,010 --> 01:21:19,230
take action with ending these industries that exploit animals.

1198
01:21:19,470 --> 01:21:22,510
And you, I know you have a list of priority.

1199
01:21:22,990 --> 01:21:26,270
Yeah, yeah, we have six initiatives. Yeah,

1200
01:21:26,670 --> 01:21:29,950
but you had asked about this recent.

1201
01:21:30,350 --> 01:21:33,900
Yes. You know, um, Win. Yes. For the

1202
01:21:34,400 --> 01:21:38,740
animals. We'll say. Right. So our number one initiative

1203
01:21:39,240 --> 01:21:42,180
that we're really focusing on, because we are. We are new.

1204
01:21:42,820 --> 01:21:46,180
We are a small collective of people

1205
01:21:46,680 --> 01:21:49,460
who truly care about animals and want to make a difference.

1206
01:21:49,940 --> 01:21:53,820
But our number one priority is to end the sale

1207
01:21:54,320 --> 01:21:57,380
of all animals in retail pet stores.

1208
01:21:58,270 --> 01:22:03,390
And, you know, through our work, through our experiences

1209
01:22:03,550 --> 01:22:07,070
collectively, individually, we realize

1210
01:22:07,150 --> 01:22:10,510
that, my goodness, you know, so much focus is put on

1211
01:22:10,750 --> 01:22:14,830
ending the sale of puppies because everyone

1212
01:22:15,330 --> 01:22:18,830
knows about puppy mills or ending the sale of, you know,

1213
01:22:19,550 --> 01:22:23,750
dogs, cats, maybe Dogs, cats, rabbits. What we don't

1214
01:22:24,250 --> 01:22:27,430
realize and need to realize is every

1215
01:22:27,590 --> 01:22:31,190
single species of animal sold in a pet store

1216
01:22:31,830 --> 01:22:35,110
is sourced from commercial

1217
01:22:35,270 --> 01:22:38,870
breeding operations or commercial breeding mills.

1218
01:22:39,430 --> 01:22:42,750
Every single species. So the reptiles,

1219
01:22:43,250 --> 01:22:45,270
the amphibians, birds, fishes,

1220
01:22:46,150 --> 01:22:49,430
all small mammals. It's all the same.

1221
01:22:49,930 --> 01:22:53,060
It's the. All the same. As you mentioned earlier,

1222
01:22:53,540 --> 01:22:57,380
puppy mills and chickens, same things. It's the same

1223
01:22:57,460 --> 01:23:00,820
thing. So I. We asked ourselves,

1224
01:23:01,540 --> 01:23:05,460
how can we only advocate for

1225
01:23:06,180 --> 01:23:09,940
a few. Right. And not all. They're all suffering.

1226
01:23:10,340 --> 01:23:14,100
So I love that about you. I love that about you and your organization.

1227
01:23:14,500 --> 01:23:18,230
I love that we said, you know, we've got to

1228
01:23:18,730 --> 01:23:22,110
do this. We've got to be the voice,

1229
01:23:22,430 --> 01:23:25,710
and we've got to use our votes to drive

1230
01:23:26,210 --> 01:23:30,390
this change. So our number one initiative for

1231
01:23:30,890 --> 01:23:34,870
the next year or two is to

1232
01:23:35,370 --> 01:23:39,310
advocate to lobby for stronger animal protection with

1233
01:23:39,810 --> 01:23:43,250
a keen focus on ending the sale of

1234
01:23:43,750 --> 01:23:47,170
all animals in retail pet stores. So we said,

1235
01:23:47,570 --> 01:23:51,250
you know what, let's start at the local level. Let's start a

1236
01:23:53,170 --> 01:23:56,450
grassroots movement across Pennsylvania.

1237
01:23:56,850 --> 01:23:59,890
And so we looked at,

1238
01:24:00,390 --> 01:24:03,890
you know, some of the municipalities in, you know, in this area,

1239
01:24:04,530 --> 01:24:07,010
and we went back to the city of Easton,

1240
01:24:10,060 --> 01:24:13,220
who had enacted a dog,

1241
01:24:13,720 --> 01:24:19,020
cat, rabbit, and guinea pig, which is pretty remarkable.

1242
01:24:19,180 --> 01:24:22,620
Yeah. That they included guinea pigs back in

1243
01:24:23,180 --> 01:24:26,340
2023. And so we went back to

1244
01:24:26,840 --> 01:24:28,220
them and we said,

1245
01:24:29,740 --> 01:24:33,730
we would like you to consider adding all mammals,

1246
01:24:34,230 --> 01:24:37,570
all reptiles, all amphibians, all birds, and all fishes in

1247
01:24:38,070 --> 01:24:41,770
your ordinance. So essentially taking your ordinance that you

1248
01:24:42,270 --> 01:24:45,970
have and including more animals. It's that straightforward.

1249
01:24:46,470 --> 01:24:49,530
Right. So the logical conclusion. Right, It's a

1250
01:24:50,030 --> 01:24:53,490
very logical conclusion. And so we. It was.

1251
01:24:53,990 --> 01:24:57,410
It was that this is like another whole podcast. So I won't get into that

1252
01:24:57,910 --> 01:25:00,430
because it was a. It was an eye opener for me because it was really

1253
01:25:00,930 --> 01:25:04,270
the first. I've ever done. Yeah. Thankfully, Cheryl Petrillo,

1254
01:25:04,770 --> 01:25:09,310
who's on our board, she actually spearheaded the initial city

1255
01:25:09,810 --> 01:25:13,590
ordinance and she's had the experience. But we were successful

1256
01:25:13,750 --> 01:25:17,750
in, you know, the city council voted 6

1257
01:25:18,250 --> 01:25:21,870
to 1 on expanding their ordinance to include mammals,

1258
01:25:22,370 --> 01:25:25,750
reptiles, amphibians, birds. They did strip out

1259
01:25:26,250 --> 01:25:29,920
fishes. And again, that's another whole different podcast.

1260
01:25:30,640 --> 01:25:35,240
But this is huge. It's a huge win. It's a historic win in Pennsylvania.

1261
01:25:35,740 --> 01:25:38,960
This sets the stage for more and more of these. Absolutely,

1262
01:25:39,460 --> 01:25:43,520
Nicole. And you know, considering that Pennsylvania does

1263
01:25:44,020 --> 01:25:46,960
not have a state level pet sales ban yet,

1264
01:25:47,600 --> 01:25:51,280
there is a bill that is, that has been introduced.

1265
01:25:51,780 --> 01:25:55,310
It's House Bill 1816. It's called

1266
01:25:55,810 --> 01:25:59,190
Victoria's Law. And if and when, I'll say when

1267
01:25:59,670 --> 01:26:03,230
passed, it will ban the sale of dogs,

1268
01:26:03,730 --> 01:26:07,630
cats and rabbits in retail pet stores in Pennsylvania.

1269
01:26:08,130 --> 01:26:11,350
So that is a start. It's not what we hope

1270
01:26:11,850 --> 01:26:15,630
for, but it is a start. So we do feel we will

1271
01:26:16,130 --> 01:26:19,750
continue to advocate for these expanded

1272
01:26:20,250 --> 01:26:24,120
ordinances across Pennsylvania and we are actively pursuing that.

1273
01:26:24,620 --> 01:26:28,440
So definitely more to come. We're just getting started. But as you

1274
01:26:28,940 --> 01:26:32,200
said for us, we are a small group, but we said, you know,

1275
01:26:32,700 --> 01:26:36,000
there's plenty of groups out there that are advocating for

1276
01:26:37,760 --> 01:26:41,080
animal welfare. So, you know, getting rid of

1277
01:26:41,580 --> 01:26:44,600
cages or bigger cages, etc. Right. Which we

1278
01:26:45,100 --> 01:26:48,160
know. That's not us. That's not, that's not us like we

1279
01:26:48,660 --> 01:26:51,960
are. When we work on something, we want it to

1280
01:26:52,460 --> 01:26:56,520
be. We're ending animal cruelty. Right. Ending the industries

1281
01:26:57,020 --> 01:27:00,400
that exploit these animals. Well, thank you so much and we

1282
01:27:00,480 --> 01:27:04,240
will have you back, I'm sure, to talk more about that and

1283
01:27:04,320 --> 01:27:08,160
grassroots activism and things like that because

1284
01:27:08,660 --> 01:27:12,880
it's so important. But how can people get involved with your organization with

1285
01:27:13,380 --> 01:27:16,710
Pennsylvania Voters for Animals? Oh, thank you for asking that because I

1286
01:27:17,210 --> 01:27:19,310
do such a bad job promoting us.

1287
01:27:21,710 --> 01:27:25,150
No, you don't. You just talked about great things that. You do in your mission.

1288
01:27:25,950 --> 01:27:29,630
I, I, we always say, first and foremost,

1289
01:27:29,710 --> 01:27:33,870
our stakeholders, Pennsylvania bidders for animals. Our stakeholders are

1290
01:27:34,370 --> 01:27:37,670
the animals. I love that. So that's always my focus. Right. We always say we're

1291
01:27:38,170 --> 01:27:41,960
animal forward here with the podcast. It's like, I'm not going to read bios forever.

1292
01:27:42,460 --> 01:27:45,320
I'll throw it in the show notes. We're talking about the animals that need us.

1293
01:27:45,800 --> 01:27:48,840
Right. So we, we actually have a website,

1294
01:27:49,240 --> 01:27:52,280
so pa voters for animals.org.

1295
01:27:52,520 --> 01:27:56,360
okay, you can visit us, you can see our team, you can

1296
01:27:56,860 --> 01:28:00,360
see our, you know, our initiatives and you can sign up for alerts

1297
01:28:00,860 --> 01:28:03,160
and you can also sign up to volunteer,

1298
01:28:04,440 --> 01:28:07,560
whatever we're we actually, our board

1299
01:28:07,800 --> 01:28:10,900
is comprised of all vegans,

1300
01:28:11,300 --> 01:28:14,340
but we are open to everyone.

1301
01:28:14,500 --> 01:28:17,220
We want to welcome everyone because we always say,

1302
01:28:17,780 --> 01:28:20,820
if you care about animals,

1303
01:28:21,320 --> 01:28:24,580
if you want to make change for animals,

1304
01:28:25,380 --> 01:28:28,580
you have a seat at our table. So our board is vegan.

1305
01:28:28,740 --> 01:28:32,020
However, we do welcome anyone to

1306
01:28:32,520 --> 01:28:35,310
join us to help us make a difference for animals.

1307
01:28:36,430 --> 01:28:39,710
Social media. Yes. Facebook. We're on Instagram.

1308
01:28:39,950 --> 01:28:43,510
Good. Yes. So you can definitely find us.

1309
01:28:44,010 --> 01:28:47,710
And I'm. You can email us at Info

1310
01:28:47,790 --> 01:28:51,230
pavotors for animals.org okay. I,

1311
01:28:51,310 --> 01:28:54,670
I do manage the email. I do. You know

1312
01:28:54,990 --> 01:28:58,710
the website. So we'll get you. You'll get me, you'll get

1313
01:28:59,210 --> 01:29:02,610
you and. We'Ll put all of that in the show. Notes LA Last week,

1314
01:29:02,850 --> 01:29:06,530
Patrick was on the podcast. We were talking about horse racing wrongs and

1315
01:29:07,030 --> 01:29:10,930
we were talking about how you know people, when you bring awareness to

1316
01:29:11,250 --> 01:29:15,050
people for one animal, they will become vegan

1317
01:29:15,550 --> 01:29:19,090
eventually. So when we, you know, people come to horse racing protests

1318
01:29:19,590 --> 01:29:23,290
and they weren't vegan and they became vegan shortly after because

1319
01:29:23,790 --> 01:29:26,650
they just really learned about this one animal and then they,

1320
01:29:27,150 --> 01:29:30,370
it just, they brought it to that logical conclusion, right? To include all animals.

1321
01:29:30,970 --> 01:29:34,690
So it's so important, everyone listening. If you want to start a group, make sure

1322
01:29:35,190 --> 01:29:37,690
you allow everybody to come to your events.

1323
01:29:38,170 --> 01:29:41,210
Also, Suzanne is in Pennsylvania,

1324
01:29:41,710 --> 01:29:45,010
but anyone outside of Pennsylvania, watch what they're

1325
01:29:45,510 --> 01:29:48,570
doing and look and be inspired because you could do this too.

1326
01:29:48,650 --> 01:29:52,290
Anybody can, you know, grab a few people together

1327
01:29:52,790 --> 01:29:55,850
and do this. And it's just grassroots activism and just really,

1328
01:29:56,980 --> 01:30:00,700
you know, doing it for the animals. So I like to empower everyone with that,

1329
01:30:01,200 --> 01:30:04,180
that everybody can do something every single day for animals. So,

1330
01:30:04,820 --> 01:30:07,980
okay, so we're at the end and I just want to do something new and

1331
01:30:08,480 --> 01:30:11,700
a little bit of fun because we talk about really sad issues. Right?

1332
01:30:11,860 --> 01:30:15,620
So we're going to try something new. And I used to ask him last

1333
01:30:16,120 --> 01:30:19,420
season, the first season, what did we do for fun to avoid burnout.

1334
01:30:19,920 --> 01:30:21,820
But I thought we'd do something a little bit different. So I have a couple

1335
01:30:22,320 --> 01:30:25,060
rapid fire questions. I'm going to ask you a question, you're going to give me

1336
01:30:25,560 --> 01:30:29,700
an answer right away. It's just a few, but it's

1337
01:30:30,200 --> 01:30:33,300
so people get to know our guests and that we're like normal people too,

1338
01:30:33,800 --> 01:30:36,900
right? So we're not, we're not like a lot of people think we're just these

1339
01:30:37,400 --> 01:30:40,940
superheroes. They can't be, they can't do what we do. But we're empowering

1340
01:30:41,440 --> 01:30:44,980
everybody that we can all be A voice for the animals and create change.

1341
01:30:45,380 --> 01:30:49,070
So, okay, question number one. What's your favorite food? Vegan,

1342
01:30:49,570 --> 01:30:52,430
of course. Anything vegan, of course.

1343
01:30:52,930 --> 01:30:55,870
Yes. But anything Italian. Italian has to be.

1344
01:30:55,950 --> 01:31:00,270
Yeah, Pasta. Anything. That's. Me, too. Pasta. What's your least favorite

1345
01:31:00,770 --> 01:31:03,630
food? Onions. Onions. Oh,

1346
01:31:04,509 --> 01:31:07,790
that's an interesting one. Like, mine is mushrooms, but,

1347
01:31:08,290 --> 01:31:10,870
you know, but I like. I'll eat a little bit of mushrooms, but not a

1348
01:31:11,370 --> 01:31:14,510
lot. And I like people that aren't vegan yet to know that you don't have

1349
01:31:15,010 --> 01:31:17,470
to like every vegetable, you know, so that's why I asked that question.

1350
01:31:18,760 --> 01:31:22,880
Favorite animal. I know this is hard. Oh, this is so hard. It's hard.

1351
01:31:23,380 --> 01:31:26,680
But is there one animal? I remember Kathy. We were on Kathy Stevens podcast years

1352
01:31:27,180 --> 01:31:30,160
ago, and I think she asked a question similar, and she said, is there one

1353
01:31:30,660 --> 01:31:33,720
animal that speaks to you? Like, you know, and for me, it started out with

1354
01:31:34,220 --> 01:31:37,600
elephants and then cows, and I remember Kathy saying, oh, you like

1355
01:31:38,100 --> 01:31:41,400
the big guys, don't you? You know, and. And every time I see a cow,

1356
01:31:41,900 --> 01:31:44,840
I just, like, lose it, like at a sanctuary or something. And,

1357
01:31:45,080 --> 01:31:49,000
yeah, I have to say right

1358
01:31:49,500 --> 01:31:52,840
off, as you're saying, right off the top of my head, I'd have to say

1359
01:31:53,480 --> 01:31:56,760
sheep. Yeah, I've. I just.

1360
01:31:56,920 --> 01:32:01,440
You just not too long ago, rescued a little lamb, and there's

1361
01:32:01,940 --> 01:32:05,400
just something. There's just something unbelievably just

1362
01:32:05,640 --> 01:32:09,080
right. They connect. But everybody. I love everybody, but,

1363
01:32:09,580 --> 01:32:13,280
yeah, we love. All animals the same, but, you know, okay, guilty pleasure.

1364
01:32:13,440 --> 01:32:16,720
Show, movie, books or anything. Oh, my gosh.

1365
01:32:17,680 --> 01:32:21,440
Anything with aliens in them. Oh, look at this. I love

1366
01:32:21,940 --> 01:32:25,080
that. I love it. You're so honest with these questions. I love it. You're not

1367
01:32:25,580 --> 01:32:29,120
overthinking it. I love it. Okay, so one. And then the last one is,

1368
01:32:29,620 --> 01:32:34,200
what's one small action people can do today. To help animals stop

1369
01:32:34,700 --> 01:32:37,800
eating them? Stop eating them. Very good. Yeah. Thank you so much.

1370
01:32:38,300 --> 01:32:41,820
Stop. Just stop, please. Think of them all just like we

1371
01:32:42,320 --> 01:32:45,820
think of each other. Hopefully we're nice to each other, but be

1372
01:32:46,320 --> 01:32:49,660
kind to animals. Thank you so much for joining me, Susan. Oh, my gosh,

1373
01:32:50,160 --> 01:32:53,460
this was such a great time. I thank you so much for all the work

1374
01:32:53,960 --> 01:32:57,900
you did on exposing all the cruelty and the

1375
01:32:58,400 --> 01:33:01,980
egg industry and then the cruelty that just spills over into backyard

1376
01:33:02,480 --> 01:33:06,260
chickens and how it's just not any better. And it's so educating and so eye

1377
01:33:06,760 --> 01:33:10,240
opening. So thank you so much, and thank you to all our listeners for listening.

1378
01:33:10,740 --> 01:33:14,680
Thank you for your support. And remember, be a voice for the animals every chance

1379
01:33:15,180 --> 01:33:17,480
you get. Thank you.