The Cruel, Deadly Horseracing Industry

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Foreign.

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Hi, friends, I'm Nicole Arcelo and welcome to the first episode

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of season two of In Behalf of Animals. I'm so excited

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to be back and to kick off another season of inspiring conversations with

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people fighting every day for the animals. We are here because

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the animals can't wait. They need us.

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They need you. Now more than ever.

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We're starting this season with something close to our hearts.

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Horse racing wrongs. I'm here with Patrick to talk about how it all began,

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what's really happening to the horses used for racing, and how people,

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how you can take action.

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So, Patrick, I think we should just start at the beginning.

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Yeah. So around about 2000,

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between 2009 and 2012, I was writing

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the animal rights blog for the Albany Times Union and I was trying to

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cover, of course, all the various animal related issues. When I

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began researching horse racing, two things jumped out.

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One, there was a dearth of information out there. No one knew how many

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horses were dying at American tracks, let alone the circumstances

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in which they were dying. And while there were occasional stories about drugs in

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racing, an issue, by the way, that still receives disproportionate

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attention in the media today, there was virtually nothing on racing's

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other attendant cruelties. Two, there was no group in the country

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taking this industry out. The big groups like PETA and HSUS merely

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gave racehorses a cursory consideration. And there were no smaller groups like

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Grade 2K with the Greyhounds hyper focused on the issue. So with

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no equine background and what a rudimentary knowledge of the

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racing industry, I decided to step into what I saw as a large void in

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the animal horse community and created horse racing wrongs. In 2013,

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learning about both horses and horse racing as I went.

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You just created this out of nothing, right?

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I really looked at the landscape, the animal rights landscape,

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and saw that no one was doing this. And I felt like racehorses,

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just like every other exploited species, deserves a concentrated

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voice or deserve a concentrated voice. And that's what I set out to

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do, was give them that voice and to make people aware of what

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was happening. Now again, we had grade 2K. I think they

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began in the year 2000, and they were absolutely

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focused on one issue and one species, dog racing and

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the greyhounds. And they did a terrific job and have done a terrific job to

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the point where we only have two dog tribes left in the entire country.

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So I really kind of thought about modeling horse racing rungs

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on grade 2K, just create a horse racing version

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of what they had done. Right. So I'm

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always in awe, even though I do this with you every single day, of how

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you really started this from nothing and really built.

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You found everything there is wrong with racing,

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not that there's anything right with racing, but all the cruelties that these poor

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horses go through. So why don't we talk about that? What happens

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to the horses? What are what we call the wrongs? Yeah, yeah,

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great. And you know, when I started, I was aware of the drugs because as

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I mentioned, there were occasional stories about drugs in racing and,

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and obviously the whips is a big issue within the animal rights

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community, but most people back

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then weren't aware of all the things

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that had happened or happened to horses during the course of their so

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called career. So it begins with what we

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like to call forced separation. So would be racehorses are

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forever torn from their mothers, families and herds as mere babes.

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They're sold usually at the tender age of one, they're broken,

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which is an industry term meaning to be pliant and submissive.

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And then they are typically sold into servitude.

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At that point again, they're alone, terrified,

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without their herds.

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And so begins their heartbreaking journey from

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there. We call it the grinding of unformed

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bodies. So horses don't fully mature till the age of six,

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so their bones aren't done growing, their growth plates aren't done fusing.

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And the higher up the horse's body, the slower the process. So the bones

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in the spine and neck of all places of the last to finish.

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Racehorses, however, are thrust into intensive training at 18

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months and typically first raced at the age of two. On the maturation

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scale, a two year old horse is the rough equivalent of a six year old

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child. So these are unformed bodies and

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the successive pounding that they're forced to absorb. We,

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we see in the necropsies that some states give us

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multiple pages of necropsy documents for each death.

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States like Maryland, Kentucky, California, we see time

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and again four, three, even two year old horses, adolescents at best,

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dying with chronic conditions like osteoarthritis and degenerative joint

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disease, sometimes in all four limbs. So that's that grinding

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that we talk about. Then comes confinement and isolation.

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And I think, you know, for us as animal rights activists, this is

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probably the worst of it. So death is death, right? But it's

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that unremitting confinement that not

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just racehorses but other species are forced to endure that

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is probably the worst for us as activists. So racehorses

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are kept locked alone in a tiny 12 by 12

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stall for over 23 hours a day. It makes a mockery of the industry

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claim that horses are born to run, love to run, and it's a cruelty all

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the worse for being inflicted on naturally social herd animals like

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horses, and relatedly, negation. So practically

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all the horse's natural instincts and desires are thwarted through this confinement,

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creating an emotional and mental suffering that is brought home with crystal

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clarity. And the stereotypies commonly displayed by confined racehorses,

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things like cribbing or windsucking, they'll grab onto something in their stall

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and they'll suck in air. They bob, they sweep, they sway,

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they weave, they pace, they dig, they kick,

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and they even at times self mutilate. This is clear,

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unequivocal evidence of the mental and emotional

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distress that these animals are suffering by being locked

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up in these tiny stalls for 23 hours a day. So we

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met with grade 2K back in 2019. They were kind enough to invite us to

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Boston. And we got to know them and pick their brains on some

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of their successes and failures over the years. And one

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thing that they told us, that really stuck with me. So in 2018,

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they were fortunate enough to get greyhound racing on the ballot

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in Florida. At the time, half of the remaining tracks, 11 out of 21

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of the remaining dog tracks in America were in Florida.

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So it was going to be a simple up or down vote by the citizens.

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It didn't have to go through the legislative process. So they were doing a lot

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of polling ahead of the, of the big vote

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in November, and they were surprised when

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they got back some of the results that what was resonating the most

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with the voters was not the deaths. Deaths,

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plural. At the time, one dog was dying every three days on the Florida track.

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But in fact, was the confinement, those images of those

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cages stacked one on top of another with those beautiful greyhounds

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crammed inside for over 23 hours a day. Just like with horse racing,

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you know, they bring these, these animals out to exercise in

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the morning, or if it's a race, state to race, and it's right back in

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the cages for the greyhounds, the stalls for the horses. So we have

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the same exact issue, same exact cruelty in horse racing.

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So it's our job as activists to

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make people aware that it is the same thing.

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Because the difference, of course, is if dogs are in our homes,

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they sleep in our beds. Horses do not. Horses have always been kept in stalls.

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But once people understand that they're suffering

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every bit as much as the greyhounds suffer in those cages,

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it kind of brings it home. So the confinement and isolation and the

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negation that, you know, for us as activists,

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I think is the worst of it. It's the worst that we can do to

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any animal, right, is to stick them in, in a box, a cage,

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a crate, a stall, and take away their autonomy. And because

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that's, that's unrelenting day in and day out,

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suffering. Next, we have control

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and subjugation. So the racing people thoroughly control

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every moment of their assets, lives, control that is often affected through

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force and intimidation. Pushing, shoving, pulling,

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yanking, goading, prodding, yelling, screaming, and through the tools of the

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trade, things like cribbing, collars, nose chains,

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lip chains, eye blinders, tongue ties,

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mouth bits and whips. So bits,

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I do want to get into that a little bit, a little bit more.

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So it should be intuitive that shoving a chunk of metal into the horse's

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soft palate and attaching it to reins as a means of control causes

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at least some level of physical pain. But here's something else

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about bits that most people don't know. It's something we didn't know up

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until just a couple of years ago. So we were out protesting in front of

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Saratoga racecourse one day, and a professional photographer friendly to

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our cause was taking shots of us. When she mentioned she'd be going

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inside to take pictures of the patrons. You, Nicole asked her to

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take pictures of the horses heads and all the attached paraphernalia.

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Right. She took these powerful images, which you can find on our website.

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I'll put them in the show notes. Yeah. And when we look at them,

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we see abuse, we see sadness. Right. But as

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is my nature, I always try to get expert

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testimony on these matters instead of us just saying,

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that's abuse, that's cruelty. And so we

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reached out to Dr. Nicholas Dodman, who sits on our advisory board. Dr. Dodman is

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a world renowned animal behaviorist, retired professor from Tufts.

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He said, it's a little bit out of my wheelhouse. He said,

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I have a better idea. I'll reach out to a colleague of mine

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from Tufts, Dr. Robert Cook. Dr. Cook, who just recently

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passed away this summer, spent his entire professional

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career, decades long, studying and writing about

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equine ear, nose and throat. A scholar, an expert beyond

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dispute. So you can't get much

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more expert than that. Right? Right. I initially reached out to Dr.

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Cook. I asked him if he would write a statement on what these horses

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are experiencing with all that paraphernalia. At first, he was a

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bit reluctant. We are, after all, an animal rights organization.

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But I was able to persuade him All I was looking for was his considered

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opinion on what he sees. He wrote a

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devastating statement. There's no other word for it. Devastating.

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It's on our website, you can find it. He talked

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about the pain that the bits cause, but he also talked about

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another aspect that again, I was unaware

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of. And I'd like to just read a couple of excerpts from his statement because

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again, it really brings it home. Yeah. So Again, this is Dr.

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Robert Cook, an expert on inquiring your nose and

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throat. He writes, the horse is a nose

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breathing animal and cannot mouth breathe in the wild. It runs with a closed mouth,

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sealed lips and negative atmospheric pressure in the oral

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cavity. Suction pressure locks the soft palate onto the

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root of an immobile tongue to maintain an open airway. A bit

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breaks the lip seal, admits air into the mouth and unlocks

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the soft palate which now obstructs the airway.

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But this is not all. A law of physics governing airflow

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in tubes explains why airway obstruction at the level of the

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throat will cause pressure damage to the lungs and why all

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these horses will bleed as their lungs are repeatedly bruised

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and quickly waterlogged. Some horses may experience severe chest

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pain and a frightening sensation of drowning.

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Any one of them could die from so called exercise induced

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pulmonary hemorrhage. A better name for this universal problem of the bitted

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and bleeding racehorse is negative pressure pulmonary edema, a life

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threatening emergency in human medicine. Dr. Cook goes

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on, in a word, all of these horses will experience varying degrees

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of suffocation. I see that at least six of them are harnessed

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with two bits, a snaffle and a tongue tie. Sorry. And a ring bit.

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A ring bit is especially severe and one horse is encumbered

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with this and a tongue tied. The physical and emotional enormity

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of bit usage would be difficult to overstate.

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Its self evident purpose to cause pain is bad enough,

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but its unintended consequence of asphyxiation brings

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to mind a method's similarity to that of waterboarding.

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In my opinion, a bit of rain is a whip by another name.

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Unrecognized lung damaging device that during extreme

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threat physical exercise inevitably causes pain,

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suffocation and premature exhaustion.

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Exhaustion. Think about that for a moment.

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Drowning, suffocation,

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asphyxiation, waterboarding.

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An expert's words, not mine.

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Awful, awful, horrible, horrible.

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And again, the vast, vast majority of

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people are totally unaware of this.

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And it's something that will

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never change, can never change. They need the bit as a means of

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control. So whenever you hear these stories about reform and

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racing and how animal welfare is their primary concern.

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Think about bits, think about confinement. Another thing that will never

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change. Why? Because these are assets. It will never allow horses

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to roam free in an open pasture with other horses because they

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have to protect their assets yet run the risk of injury.

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So I like to talk about whips. So if

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you saw someone whipping his dog in the park, you and

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probably everyone else around you would immediately call 911 and

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that person would be arrested on the spot for animal cruelty. In many states,

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felony cruelty. Yet at the racetrack, the public flogging

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administered to race versus is all considered just part of the game.

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And here again, don't allow yourselves to be deceived by industry propaganda.

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The crop, as they euphemistically call it, is not the harmless guide

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they would have us believe. It hurts,

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obviously I just a few years back,

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Dr. Rick Arthur, who at the time was the equine medical director for the California

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Horse Racing Board, was speaking before an international

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racing conference and he

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said, and it's important to note that Dr. Dr. Arthur is not against horse

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racing. He said, there are those who say that the whip doesn't

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hurt the horses. He said that's nonsense. Of course it hurts.

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00:16:15,930 --> 00:16:20,010
That's why we use it. Run faster or I will beat you again.

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00:16:20,490 --> 00:16:24,290
Someone and first off a veterinarian saying that, but also someone who

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is not against horse racing, talking about the

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00:16:28,430 --> 00:16:32,410
pain of the whip. That's why they use it. Okay? It's a motivational

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00:16:32,910 --> 00:16:36,170
tool. Think about that. When anyone talks about

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horse racing as a sport, is there any other sport on

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the planet where beating provides the motivation

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00:16:45,940 --> 00:16:49,540
for performance? Right. So of course it's absurd.

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00:16:51,140 --> 00:16:54,260
Bits and whips. Again, just part of the tools.

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00:16:54,420 --> 00:16:57,460
Tools of the trade, drugging and doping.

253
00:16:58,500 --> 00:17:01,820
Most people are aware that there's drugs in racing because it gets a lot of

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00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,980
attention. Racehorses are injected legally and otherwise with myriad

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00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:10,010
performance enhancing pain, numbing injury, masking chemicals.

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00:17:10,510 --> 00:17:14,610
The horsemen's credo was really simple. Keep them out on the track, keep them

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00:17:15,110 --> 00:17:19,090
earning by whatever means necessary. And then there's commodification.

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00:17:19,890 --> 00:17:22,970
By law, racehorses are literal chattel pieces

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00:17:23,470 --> 00:17:27,570
of property to be bought, sold, traded and dumped whenever and however their

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00:17:28,070 --> 00:17:31,730
people decide. To make matters worse, they are not even afforded the protections,

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00:17:32,230 --> 00:17:35,090
woefully inadequate as most are of animal cruelty statutes.

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00:17:35,740 --> 00:17:39,540
Meaning an owner or trainer can run his horse into the ground. Yes,

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00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:43,740
even to death with virtual impunity. What's more,

264
00:17:44,380 --> 00:17:48,100
the average racehorse will be sold multiple times over the

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00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,740
course of his so called career, adding anxiety and stress

266
00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:56,180
to an Already anxious, stressful existence. This near constant shuffling

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00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:00,420
among owners, trainers, vets, grooms, barns, tracks and states is

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00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:04,380
a primary reason why almost all active racehorses suffer from

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00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:05,840
corporate chronic ulcers.

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00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:12,240
And then of course there's death. And this is something

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00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:16,680
that we are especially known for so

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00:18:17,180 --> 00:18:20,519
early on. Again, I'm a, I'm very much a

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00:18:21,019 --> 00:18:25,280
fat evidence based person. I need to come armed

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00:18:25,780 --> 00:18:29,200
with irrefutable information and

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I started filing FOIA requests with state racing commissions

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00:18:33,100 --> 00:18:37,120
immediately. So I asked for the horses who

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00:18:37,620 --> 00:18:41,360
died at their tracks during the course of the year and if

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00:18:41,860 --> 00:18:45,280
possible, necopsy reports. As I said, not all states give us that, but the

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ones who do. I would encourage listeners to go on our website and

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look at the state by state death reports and pay particular attention

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00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,760
to Maryland, Kentucky, California. They give

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00:18:57,260 --> 00:19:00,700
us full necropsy reports. And necropsy is an autopsy for animals.

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00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,500
Exactly right. It's the details,

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00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:08,940
once you start getting in the details. So to date we

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00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:14,460
have documented with names, dates, locations and details over

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00:19:15,100 --> 00:19:18,540
11,700 kills at US

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00:19:18,620 --> 00:19:22,460
tracks just since 2014. Our research

288
00:19:22,540 --> 00:19:26,110
indicates that some 1800 horses parish

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00:19:26,610 --> 00:19:30,310
across America every year. That's five dead racehorses

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00:19:30,810 --> 00:19:33,990
a day. And to be clear, death at the track is

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00:19:34,490 --> 00:19:38,910
neither clean nor tranquil. Death at the track is cardiovascular

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00:19:38,990 --> 00:19:42,670
collapse or a failed heart. This, mind you, to animals

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00:19:43,170 --> 00:19:46,430
who are mostly still in adolescence. Death at the track is

294
00:19:46,670 --> 00:19:49,630
pulmonary hemorrhage or bleeding out from the lungs.

295
00:19:50,510 --> 00:19:53,910
Death at the track is blunt force trauma from flipping

296
00:19:54,410 --> 00:19:57,650
backward out of fear or the starting gate, or from collisions with other

297
00:19:58,150 --> 00:20:02,130
horses or the track itself. Doubt that the track is broken

298
00:20:02,630 --> 00:20:06,810
necks severed spines, ruptured ligaments,

299
00:20:07,610 --> 00:20:10,730
fractured skulls and shattered legs,

300
00:20:11,290 --> 00:20:14,610
occasionally shattered so severely that the limb remains attached to the

301
00:20:15,110 --> 00:20:17,370
rest of the body by skin or tendons only.

302
00:20:18,810 --> 00:20:22,690
Obviously it's in the industry's best interest to get the catastrophically injured

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00:20:23,190 --> 00:20:26,530
horse off the track as quickly as possible. Vanned off, they call it, back to

304
00:20:27,030 --> 00:20:30,510
the barn where he can be euthanized. Out of sight, out of mind. But often

305
00:20:31,010 --> 00:20:35,110
the injury is so horrific, leg dangling, bones protruding,

306
00:20:35,610 --> 00:20:39,110
blood gushing, that transport is impossible. So the horse must

307
00:20:39,610 --> 00:20:43,230
wait, pain, terror, for the vet to arrive with

308
00:20:43,730 --> 00:20:47,550
the pink solution that will lend his life. One such

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00:20:48,050 --> 00:20:51,950
horse was Heel Volt, who broke down in a race in

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00:20:52,450 --> 00:20:55,990
Louisiana back in 2009. And an ESPN

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00:20:56,490 --> 00:20:59,390
writer followed the track that Lauren Kennedy as she went about her business.

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00:21:00,670 --> 00:21:01,390
He wrote,

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00:21:07,390 --> 00:21:10,910
as she nears Healbo, he is facing away from

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00:21:11,410 --> 00:21:14,670
her. She can see he's standing on only three legs,

315
00:21:15,550 --> 00:21:19,110
his left front ankle is dangling and shattered, attached only by

316
00:21:19,610 --> 00:21:22,120
skin. Two arteries are split.

317
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:25,560
Blood is everywhere on his leg,

318
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:30,080
his hoof, the grass. His eyes,

319
00:21:30,580 --> 00:21:34,840
once coldly fixed on the track, are teary and dilated. His breathing,

320
00:21:35,340 --> 00:21:39,440
once quick, has quickened even more. His coat, once shiny

321
00:21:39,940 --> 00:21:42,760
from the pumping of oil on sweat glands, has dulled.

322
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:45,480
Out comes the pink.

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00:21:47,090 --> 00:21:50,930
Kennedy strokes his neck to say goodbye, then puts her left index

324
00:21:51,430 --> 00:21:54,690
finger on his jugular and presses down, swelling the vein.

325
00:21:55,570 --> 00:21:58,530
She drives the needle straight in, piercing his sweaty,

326
00:21:59,030 --> 00:22:02,530
leathery skin, and depresses the large plunger with her thumb,

327
00:22:03,090 --> 00:22:06,330
pushing in the poison, darkening the pink as it

328
00:22:06,830 --> 00:22:10,530
mixes with blood. After it empties, she draws

329
00:22:11,030 --> 00:22:13,250
out the needle and repeats the motion with the second syringe.

330
00:22:14,540 --> 00:22:17,820
Hill Bolt falls under the railing, landing shoulder

331
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,140
first, his nose in the dirt.

332
00:22:21,660 --> 00:22:25,180
He blinks rapidly for 10 seconds or so, until his

333
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:27,500
eyes, once beautifully alert, are blank.

334
00:22:28,780 --> 00:22:32,300
As his fellow horses, having just finished the race, jog by,

335
00:22:33,100 --> 00:22:36,460
his life is measured in shallow breaths until he

336
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:40,780
is no longer breathing, until he is just 1200 pounds

337
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:45,700
of expired muscle, his bloody, shattered leg hooked on

338
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,220
a railing. The writer concludes,

339
00:22:50,420 --> 00:22:53,060
it's hard to know what a peaceful death looks like,

340
00:22:54,180 --> 00:22:58,140
but this isn't it. Every time

341
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:02,340
I hear. Because it's just illustrates what really happens,

342
00:23:04,820 --> 00:23:07,270
you know, when we report,

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00:23:08,070 --> 00:23:12,310
you know, when we're doing the social media, you're doing your daily reports

344
00:23:12,390 --> 00:23:16,230
on, on the website. We use the

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00:23:16,730 --> 00:23:20,310
word euthanasia a lot because that's what's quoted from the charts. Right? Right. Or from

346
00:23:20,870 --> 00:23:24,830
the boyas or. Or whatever. We're doing mostly the charts. But this isn't,

347
00:23:25,330 --> 00:23:28,750
you know, that humane euthanasia that we

348
00:23:29,250 --> 00:23:33,130
experience with our companion animals. Right, right. We do that out of love. Right.

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00:23:33,210 --> 00:23:35,050
Out of, you know,

350
00:23:38,090 --> 00:23:41,530
longer suffering, you know, and, and. But this is.

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00:23:42,010 --> 00:23:45,730
These are painful deaths with a tremendous amount of suffering. And these

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00:23:46,230 --> 00:23:49,930
horses have suffered so long. They've suffered in every training,

353
00:23:50,090 --> 00:23:53,370
they've suffered during every race. They're giving,

354
00:23:53,770 --> 00:23:56,970
given those medications to mask that pain.

355
00:23:57,370 --> 00:24:00,830
And then when they are laying there with broken bones,

356
00:24:00,910 --> 00:24:04,430
broken bodies, they're suffering and

357
00:24:04,930 --> 00:24:08,630
we know. And terrified and terrified. Remember, these are. These are prey animals,

358
00:24:09,130 --> 00:24:12,350
flight animals. They've lost

359
00:24:12,850 --> 00:24:16,430
control of their ability to flee.

360
00:24:17,230 --> 00:24:21,030
And that's a

361
00:24:21,530 --> 00:24:24,590
component that I think people maybe lose sight of,

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00:24:24,830 --> 00:24:28,450
is the terror that they are feeling in that moment.

363
00:24:28,690 --> 00:24:32,450
Not just the physical pain, but the terror. Right. Something that

364
00:24:33,170 --> 00:24:36,570
we must keep in mind when

365
00:24:37,070 --> 00:24:39,570
we're talking about horses at the track.

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00:24:40,850 --> 00:24:44,570
And as I said, the last thing they want to

367
00:24:45,070 --> 00:24:48,210
do is euthanize right there in the dirt

368
00:24:48,710 --> 00:24:52,450
in Front of the public when they do tugs go up

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00:24:52,530 --> 00:24:54,460
when they do that, the tarp up.

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00:24:56,540 --> 00:24:59,660
Believe it was in 2003,

371
00:25:00,140 --> 00:25:03,420
two horses were killed on Travers Day at Saratoga.

372
00:25:04,220 --> 00:25:07,540
And there were reports because Travers is a big race.

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00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:12,020
It's, you know, it's maybe the fourth biggest race in

374
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,340
the whole country during the course of the year behind the Triple Crown races.

375
00:25:17,020 --> 00:25:20,200
There was a lot of reporting after that, the day

376
00:25:20,700 --> 00:25:23,920
after about families, parents shielding their

377
00:25:24,420 --> 00:25:28,280
children from what was happening out in the track because those were two horses

378
00:25:28,780 --> 00:25:31,360
who could not be transported because the injuries were too horrific.

379
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,800
And I thought, if this is a possibility

380
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:42,240
that you're going to have to shield your children's eyes, then perhaps

381
00:25:42,740 --> 00:25:46,150
you should rethink your decision. Um,

382
00:25:46,230 --> 00:25:49,990
and. And that was our message, and that is our message that especially to

383
00:25:50,490 --> 00:25:53,750
families at Saratoga Racecourse. And we were there that day.

384
00:25:53,830 --> 00:25:58,230
We were there. Our mobile billboard was there till after 7pm

385
00:25:58,630 --> 00:26:02,590
um, so as people were coming out, I remember actually that

386
00:26:03,090 --> 00:26:06,110
day specifically for multiple reasons,

387
00:26:06,610 --> 00:26:09,750
but I remember I was in contact with the driver of the truck that day,

388
00:26:09,910 --> 00:26:14,350
and he was telling me how he was right

389
00:26:14,850 --> 00:26:17,390
there at the exit as people were coming out.

390
00:26:17,710 --> 00:26:21,230
And he said that people were very upset about him being there.

391
00:26:21,710 --> 00:26:25,070
And so it was just another bit of education after

392
00:26:25,570 --> 00:26:29,230
what they had seen in that. And that is a challenge

393
00:26:29,730 --> 00:26:33,470
for us, right, whether we're protesting, it's fair to any other track around the

394
00:26:33,970 --> 00:26:37,840
country. Most of the time, the public doesn't see it because

395
00:26:38,340 --> 00:26:40,800
the horse is carted away and euthanized back in the barn. Like I said,

396
00:26:41,300 --> 00:26:45,640
out of sight, out of mind. Right? So they sometimes,

397
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,520
maybe they don't believe what we're saying when we talk about these

398
00:26:50,020 --> 00:26:53,960
numbers and the details, because it's not

399
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,320
in public view and those

400
00:26:57,820 --> 00:27:01,120
details don't get reported. So even if media outlets pick up on

401
00:27:01,620 --> 00:27:05,200
a death, they're not going to talk about the. The open fracture,

402
00:27:05,700 --> 00:27:09,120
which. Which means that the bone has protruded, is protruding through the

403
00:27:09,620 --> 00:27:13,560
skin. Right? They're not, you know, they're not going to talk about ruptured ligaments and,

404
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:18,120
and fractured skulls and broken necks and the things that we report and

405
00:27:18,360 --> 00:27:20,840
directly from FOIA documents, by the way,

406
00:27:22,120 --> 00:27:24,280
we report on our website every day.

407
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,600
And so if I had, if I had one

408
00:27:29,100 --> 00:27:32,560
wish, it was that it would be the people would read those state by

409
00:27:33,060 --> 00:27:36,560
state death reports that we put out, right. And we've been putting out since 2014,

410
00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:40,560
and just start going through the details and then come back

411
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,800
and try to justify this vile,

412
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,720
evil industry, you know, one that is all about what $2

413
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,040
bets ultimately in frivolous entertainment.

414
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,640
So I do want to talk about debt at the

415
00:27:56,140 --> 00:27:58,240
stalls or back in the stalls? Oh, yes, please.

416
00:27:59,510 --> 00:28:03,550
Death also happens back in the stalls from things like colic, which is a painful,

417
00:28:04,050 --> 00:28:08,070
terrifying abdominal affliction, and laminitis, which is excruciating

418
00:28:08,570 --> 00:28:12,310
inflammation in the feet, which experts have told us is perhaps the most painful

419
00:28:12,810 --> 00:28:16,230
way a horse can die. They also die of respiratory infection,

420
00:28:16,390 --> 00:28:19,510
neurological disorders, parasitic infestations,

421
00:28:20,070 --> 00:28:23,590
the proverbial barn accidents, or as we often see in the

422
00:28:24,090 --> 00:28:27,500
FOIA documents, the victim was simply, quote, found dead in the morning.

423
00:28:28,380 --> 00:28:31,540
These are fully active racehorses in

424
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,020
between races and again, most of them mere adolescents.

425
00:28:35,820 --> 00:28:39,100
Just a couple of the notes on these stall deaths. So we have been

426
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:43,180
reporting these right from the start, along with the racing and training varieties.

427
00:28:43,340 --> 00:28:46,940
And almost from the start, industry apologists would come on our site and cry

428
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:51,180
unfair. Horses die of colic and laminitis everywhere. Horses are cat.

429
00:28:51,660 --> 00:28:55,190
This is true. But as we have documented on the

430
00:28:55,690 --> 00:28:59,990
website, studies show that racehorses, by virtue of their confinement, their diet,

431
00:29:00,070 --> 00:29:03,830
and just the general way they are treated, are at a higher risk for

432
00:29:04,330 --> 00:29:07,830
all these types of deaths than the general population. But here's

433
00:29:08,330 --> 00:29:11,910
another way of looking at it. I'm a big history buff and

434
00:29:12,390 --> 00:29:15,830
I and many people know that some 650,000

435
00:29:15,910 --> 00:29:19,630
soldiers died in the American Civil War. Most, however,

436
00:29:19,710 --> 00:29:23,310
are unaware that roughly two thirds of those died of disease.

437
00:29:24,190 --> 00:29:28,430
Now, knowing this, have you ever heard in a story try to draw some qualitative

438
00:29:28,510 --> 00:29:31,670
or moral distinction between a soldier who died of a

439
00:29:32,170 --> 00:29:35,630
gunshot wound on the battlefield and one who died of dysentery back in the camp?

440
00:29:36,190 --> 00:29:39,790
Of course not. For if not for the war, there would not have been

441
00:29:40,290 --> 00:29:43,390
in that place at that time. Same logic applies here.

442
00:29:43,950 --> 00:29:47,610
In short, all deaths in horse racing are by

443
00:29:48,110 --> 00:29:51,170
horse racing, right? And then finally,

444
00:29:51,730 --> 00:29:55,610
horse racing is slaughter, right? So we do not know

445
00:29:56,110 --> 00:29:59,970
the exact number of discarded American racehorses being shipped

446
00:30:00,470 --> 00:30:03,170
to Canada and Mexico for slaughter. And just as an aside,

447
00:30:03,410 --> 00:30:06,770
we do not currently slaughter horses on American soil.

448
00:30:06,930 --> 00:30:10,770
It has been defunded and meaning that there's no money for USDA

449
00:30:11,270 --> 00:30:14,790
inspectors, so they can't open a slaughterhorse

450
00:30:15,290 --> 00:30:18,430
slaughterhouse hasn't been banned, just defunded. So now we

451
00:30:18,930 --> 00:30:22,910
ship them, which is a self a horror. And I'll get into to Canada and

452
00:30:23,410 --> 00:30:27,150
Mexico. And the problem of course is that there's a demand for horse meat

453
00:30:27,230 --> 00:30:30,710
in Europe and Asia. And if there's a demand,

454
00:30:31,210 --> 00:30:32,430
there's going to be a supply.

455
00:30:34,910 --> 00:30:38,290
But the general consensus within the rescue community is that we're

456
00:30:38,790 --> 00:30:42,290
talking multiple thousands of discarded racehorses annually.

457
00:30:42,770 --> 00:30:46,250
In fact, just a few years ago, Alex Waldrop, who at the

458
00:30:46,750 --> 00:30:49,570
time was the president of the National Thoroughbred Racing association,

459
00:30:50,210 --> 00:30:54,690
told the USA Today that each year 7,500American

460
00:30:54,770 --> 00:30:58,290
Thoroughbreds were being shipped to Canada and

461
00:30:58,790 --> 00:31:02,690
Mexico for slaughter. Think about that for a moment. One of the most powerful executives

462
00:31:03,190 --> 00:31:06,670
in all of US Racing, freely admitting to a major publication

463
00:31:06,910 --> 00:31:10,470
that every year over 7,000 of his industry's

464
00:31:10,970 --> 00:31:13,950
supposed beloved family members. That's something we hear all the time, right?

465
00:31:14,110 --> 00:31:17,350
These are like our children, they say. These sources are like our

466
00:31:17,850 --> 00:31:20,750
children are being snuffed out in the most horrific of ways.

467
00:31:20,910 --> 00:31:24,830
And those are just the thoroughbred, mind you. How many more erstwhile

468
00:31:25,330 --> 00:31:29,270
standard bred and quarter horse athletes meet the same brutal

469
00:31:29,770 --> 00:31:32,580
end? And what, you may ask, is that brutal end?

470
00:31:33,220 --> 00:31:37,100
Sold at auction to kill buyers, transported to holding pens

471
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,820
and ultimately shipped hundreds, if not thousands of miles in crammed,

472
00:31:40,900 --> 00:31:44,300
cramped trailers where the USDA has determined

473
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:49,060
they can go up to 28 hours without food, water or rest. Their final destination

474
00:31:49,140 --> 00:31:51,860
is a cold concrete abattoir.

475
00:31:52,340 --> 00:31:55,580
Here, among the terrifying sights, sounds and smells of

476
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,850
death, they'll first be shot either with a.22 caliber rifle or a

477
00:32:00,350 --> 00:32:03,730
retractable metal bolt to the brain. But often this takes multiple

478
00:32:04,230 --> 00:32:08,090
tries as the panic head shy flight inclined equines make difficult

479
00:32:08,590 --> 00:32:12,210
targets, a fact exacerbated by floors made slippery with blood.

480
00:32:12,930 --> 00:32:16,450
They will then be shackled by their hind legs, hoisted and hung

481
00:32:16,950 --> 00:32:19,890
upside down, slashed through their carotid artery,

482
00:32:20,450 --> 00:32:23,980
bled out as occasionally while still conscious,

483
00:32:24,540 --> 00:32:28,180
and finally butchered for their meat. The whimsical

484
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,540
names and cheering crowds that did her lifetime ago of this

485
00:32:32,940 --> 00:32:36,060
final horrible treachery or betrayal.

486
00:32:36,380 --> 00:32:39,540
Twyla Francois, Canadian horse slaughter expert,

487
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,580
I think said it best and I'd like to read what she has written.

488
00:32:46,860 --> 00:32:50,200
They are so frightened. You can see them in the

489
00:32:50,700 --> 00:32:53,680
auction ring, searching, looking for a friendly face.

490
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,240
We see this at the slaughterhouses too, where they're still seeking out

491
00:32:58,740 --> 00:33:02,320
affection from even the workers themselves. And one thing

492
00:33:02,820 --> 00:33:06,120
we saw that really broke my heart was the workers walking by

493
00:33:06,620 --> 00:33:10,800
the pens and the horses would rush up looking for comfort

494
00:33:11,300 --> 00:33:15,370
from these men who were going to kill them. Imagine that.

495
00:33:16,250 --> 00:33:20,090
Heartbreaking. Yeah. So you know,

496
00:33:20,410 --> 00:33:24,010
when you put it all together, the snapped

497
00:33:24,170 --> 00:33:26,490
legs and shredded ligaments of race day,

498
00:33:27,130 --> 00:33:30,730
the blown hearts and bloodied lungs of morning practice,

499
00:33:31,210 --> 00:33:34,850
the colic laminitis found dead in stall and

500
00:33:35,350 --> 00:33:38,810
the exsanguinations at the slaughterhouse were led to an

501
00:33:39,310 --> 00:33:43,660
inescapable, simple conclusion. The American horse racing industry is Engaged

502
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,860
in wholesale carnage. It's not hyperbole. Carnage.

503
00:33:52,580 --> 00:33:55,780
I know it's a lot. It's a lot. I know it's,

504
00:33:55,940 --> 00:33:59,100
it's. But I'm so happy that we could have an

505
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,740
episode all about this so people could hear all of that straight through.

506
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,990
We've done talks. You just talked last weekend at the Compassion for

507
00:34:07,490 --> 00:34:10,870
Animals Environment conference and the whole room was crying. I was crying.

508
00:34:11,370 --> 00:34:14,990
Other people crying from your stories and the two passages

509
00:34:15,490 --> 00:34:18,670
you read here. And I'm so happy about that. So I do have other

510
00:34:19,170 --> 00:34:22,710
questions for you because I know what people, people love hearing

511
00:34:23,210 --> 00:34:26,350
you speak and I'm so honored for us to do this. I love

512
00:34:26,850 --> 00:34:30,110
hearing you speak. I love you, but I love hearing you speak and I admire

513
00:34:30,610 --> 00:34:34,519
you so much. So I have questions because I know what people like,

514
00:34:35,019 --> 00:34:38,279
they ask me and they want me to ask you. And so,

515
00:34:39,159 --> 00:34:43,239
But a few of your questions. I actually things

516
00:34:43,739 --> 00:34:46,159
that have, that have come up recently. So I want you to kind of talk

517
00:34:46,659 --> 00:34:50,479
about them. I know how well you spoke about, since you just spoke

518
00:34:50,979 --> 00:34:54,319
about that, how the people in the racing industry, the owners say

519
00:34:54,819 --> 00:34:58,310
they love them like their children. So a lot of people have heard you

520
00:34:58,810 --> 00:35:02,510
talk about claiming races. And you know, I don't, I know we don't always

521
00:35:03,010 --> 00:35:05,430
like to get into the weeds with everything, but I think since we're on a

522
00:35:05,930 --> 00:35:09,270
really good forum here. Yeah, People can learn about that. And I know that

523
00:35:09,770 --> 00:35:13,870
you have in person confronted owners

524
00:35:14,110 --> 00:35:17,630
of horses at Saratoga Race Course. And we'll

525
00:35:18,130 --> 00:35:21,470
talk a little bit about what we do there too, but go ahead. Yeah,

526
00:35:21,970 --> 00:35:25,400
so the great majority of races in the US are what

527
00:35:25,900 --> 00:35:29,840
are called claiming races. It's the bottom tier, not the Triple Crown races.

528
00:35:30,340 --> 00:35:33,960
But you know, the so called meat and potatoes of the racing industry are these

529
00:35:34,460 --> 00:35:38,080
claiming races. So claiming race means that every horse

530
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,880
prior to the race that's in that race is for

531
00:35:42,380 --> 00:35:46,400
sale at a set price. So $5,000 claiming race, for example, means that each

532
00:35:46,900 --> 00:35:50,610
horse in that race is three for sale for $5,000.

533
00:35:50,930 --> 00:35:54,330
Any licensed owner or trainer can put a claim in on

534
00:35:54,830 --> 00:35:58,610
the horse and at the end of the race, ownership changes hands.

535
00:35:59,650 --> 00:36:03,170
And again, this is, this is every day we're talking,

536
00:36:03,490 --> 00:36:06,850
you know, well over three quarters of the races in America

537
00:36:07,350 --> 00:36:10,570
are claiming races. So as

538
00:36:11,070 --> 00:36:14,610
you mentioned, you know, occasionally we'll get an owner

539
00:36:15,110 --> 00:36:18,570
or trainer trying to engage us in debate outside

540
00:36:19,070 --> 00:36:21,730
of Saratoga or any other track that we're protesting at. Right.

541
00:36:22,050 --> 00:36:25,210
They come out and they're very smug and they think that they, I love.

542
00:36:25,710 --> 00:36:27,650
When they walk up to you, by the way. Yeah. I'm like, oh, here we

543
00:36:28,150 --> 00:36:31,090
go. Let's get the cameras out. Yeah, like we don't know anything, you know,

544
00:36:31,590 --> 00:36:35,730
and, and, and we're just activists. And so

545
00:36:35,810 --> 00:36:38,930
they'll talk, they'll start talking and the first question,

546
00:36:39,730 --> 00:36:44,700
when they start talking about how pampered horses are, and sometimes

547
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,180
they'll say things like, yeah, they're like, my children. So I'll say,

548
00:36:48,820 --> 00:36:52,260
have you ever dropped one of your horses in a claiming race?

549
00:36:52,740 --> 00:36:56,620
And inevitably they have, because again, that's. When they realize that, you know, you're talking.

550
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,420
Right? So, because again, the vast majority of races are claiming races. And if you're

551
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:02,940
in this industry, you're going to have, you know, you're going to be involved in

552
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,860
a claiming race at some point, right? And they'll say, yeah, you know,

553
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,140
looking at me like, where's he going with this? And I'll say, okay, so would

554
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:14,500
you put your child up for sale? Because that's what you're doing. Right?

555
00:37:14,580 --> 00:37:18,140
And they sit there sometimes with mouth to gape. They have no

556
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,380
answer for that. Right. Well, they know then. They know we're not the,

557
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,020
quote, stupid activists that need a job. They have nothing better to do.

558
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,860
Right? So this, this nonsense that they're treated better again, would you

559
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:32,700
stick your child? And doc, I wanted to mention Dr. Craig Kowakowski.

560
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,300
He's a prominent equine veterinarian. Please look him up on

561
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:38,740
our website. We've got some video clips of him. I'll put it in the show

562
00:37:39,240 --> 00:37:43,400
notes. Yeah. Testifying before the New York State Senate in 2019. He started his

563
00:37:43,900 --> 00:37:47,680
career at a vet school at the track. And after experiencing that

564
00:37:48,180 --> 00:37:50,800
for a year, he just swore it off. He's, you know, it was a horrible

565
00:37:51,300 --> 00:37:54,840
experience. And so he talks about not only the, the unformed

566
00:37:55,340 --> 00:37:58,440
bodies, and I do remember when he, when he,

567
00:37:58,940 --> 00:38:01,920
when he was comparing a two year old horse to a six year old child

568
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,760
after he was done with his, with his testimony, a statement,

569
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,840
one of the senators who, from the Saratoga region,

570
00:38:10,340 --> 00:38:13,840
no surprise, asked him, well, we put our children

571
00:38:14,340 --> 00:38:17,440
in youth sports like Little League and gymnastics and,

572
00:38:17,940 --> 00:38:20,360
you know, what's the difference? And without missing a beat, Dr.

573
00:38:20,860 --> 00:38:24,760
Kolakowski said, these horses are going right to the Super Bowl. Right. There's no

574
00:38:25,260 --> 00:38:28,160
easing in here and there's no parents, you know,

575
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,280
protecting them or watching out for their better interests.

576
00:38:32,780 --> 00:38:36,700
And so, of course, it's all about getting that horse

577
00:38:37,980 --> 00:38:41,580
to these high stakes races as quickly as possible.

578
00:38:43,020 --> 00:38:46,620
So these adolescents, as I said earlier,

579
00:38:47,260 --> 00:38:50,300
are coming off the track with osteoarthritis and

580
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,740
degenerative joint disease. That's something you don't see with children.

581
00:38:54,700 --> 00:38:58,860
And that's a perfect segue to my next question slash

582
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,300
observation. So, you know, we will,

583
00:39:02,780 --> 00:39:06,300
we'll talk about how we can talk about it here, how this.

584
00:39:06,380 --> 00:39:09,820
We are abolitionists, we're vegan abolitionists,

585
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,900
our organization and so we're not interested in reform

586
00:39:14,379 --> 00:39:18,460
and just an end to this horrible industry for good.

587
00:39:19,100 --> 00:39:22,540
So when people say that the problem with racing,

588
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,540
we see this a lot on social media. The problem with racing is they're racing

589
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:27,410
them too young. They need to wait until they're full.

590
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:34,040
An answer to that. When we hear that, what would you say to them?

591
00:39:34,540 --> 00:39:38,200
Well, first off, that's not going to solve those other issues that we talked about.

592
00:39:38,700 --> 00:39:42,200
So the other, again, you're just, we're just talking about death,

593
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:46,080
right? So we're, we estimate that some

594
00:39:46,580 --> 00:39:49,920
1800 horses are being killed every year. So pie in

595
00:39:50,420 --> 00:39:54,040
the sky, something that'll never happen. Let's say they weren't able to half that.

596
00:39:54,340 --> 00:39:57,500
Right. My question to America would be is,

597
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,740
is that acceptable then? Right? A thousand horses dying every, every year for

598
00:40:02,240 --> 00:40:05,540
$2 bets. And if not, then you tell me what the number is.

599
00:40:06,020 --> 00:40:09,540
What is your acceptable loss ratio? Because everyone,

600
00:40:09,620 --> 00:40:13,580
including people in the racing industry, we have quotes on our website, know that

601
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:17,380
zero is impossible. It'll never happen. So but

602
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:21,740
let's just put the death aside, right? These reforms will

603
00:40:22,240 --> 00:40:26,020
never address the confinement, will never address the tools that they

604
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:30,020
use. The nose chains, the lip chains, the tongue ties, the mouth fits, the whips.

605
00:40:30,340 --> 00:40:33,060
Okay. Can't address, can't. Right.

606
00:40:33,860 --> 00:40:35,700
As far as the ages of the horses.

607
00:40:37,300 --> 00:40:41,180
Yes. Would it be better for the horses to wait until they

608
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:45,180
were five or six to begin training and racing? Yeah, of course it

609
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:49,490
would. Because we're talking about these unformed bodies. Never going to happen. Why?

610
00:40:49,570 --> 00:40:52,690
It's cost prohibitive. These animals are expensive,

611
00:40:53,730 --> 00:40:56,930
not only to breed but to take care

612
00:40:57,430 --> 00:41:00,370
of them. They're never going to wait five,

613
00:41:00,690 --> 00:41:04,090
six years to begin trying to

614
00:41:04,590 --> 00:41:08,770
get a return on their investment. Right? Never going to happen. And very

615
00:41:09,270 --> 00:41:13,450
important and something that we talk about all the time. Often you'll hear reformers

616
00:41:13,950 --> 00:41:17,540
talk about two year old racing. There's not much difference

617
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,300
between a two year old and a three year old or a four year old.

618
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,220
They're all adolescents. Five year olds are still immature.

619
00:41:24,460 --> 00:41:28,380
Okay, so just getting rid of two year old racing, not going

620
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:32,940
to make any difference. Right. Okay. So let's put this, you know, put this nonsense

621
00:41:33,100 --> 00:41:36,900
to bed. Right. Once and for all. Right. And again,

622
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:40,900
it's not going to happen. They're not going to wait. Now the biggest races

623
00:41:41,700 --> 00:41:44,980
are for three year olds and they have to have that two year old season

624
00:41:45,060 --> 00:41:48,020
to prepare them for the Triple Crown races when they're three.

625
00:41:48,100 --> 00:41:52,020
Right. Never going to change. It's been like that from the beginning.

626
00:41:52,500 --> 00:41:55,700
Never going to change. And you know, it just occurred to me as you're saying

627
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:58,900
that they will not take care of them. They won't do that,

628
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:03,180
spend all that expense to wait until they're six. Right. They won't

629
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:06,870
keep them forever either. So they discard them. Right.

630
00:42:06,950 --> 00:42:11,070
They're laundering them. They don't sell them directly to slaughter anymore. They launder

631
00:42:11,570 --> 00:42:13,750
them to someone else. They wind up with a kill buyer, they go for bail,

632
00:42:14,250 --> 00:42:16,150
which is a whole other episode if we want to get into that.

633
00:42:17,670 --> 00:42:21,470
So how much does it add a

634
00:42:21,970 --> 00:42:24,550
formula that you would use? When I talk about slaughter,

635
00:42:25,590 --> 00:42:28,710
you know, I throw this out. So the full crop,

636
00:42:29,830 --> 00:42:33,020
which is the, you know, very telling phrase that

637
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:36,340
they use for the number of new thoroughbreds coming into the system each year,

638
00:42:36,580 --> 00:42:40,020
it's declined significantly. It sits down 50% over the

639
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,380
past 20 years because racing is in decline, which we can get into,

640
00:42:44,500 --> 00:42:48,020
but it's around 17, 18,000 or so.

641
00:42:48,900 --> 00:42:53,060
So if the, if you were to try to guarantee forever

642
00:42:53,140 --> 00:42:56,860
safe landing for each and every member of the full crop. So when

643
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:01,300
they come off the track, those 18,000 horses, we're going to guarantee them a

644
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:05,580
forever home. Okay. Assuming a

645
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:09,580
five year, roughly five year racing career, and I put that in

646
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:13,820
quotes, assuming a 25 year lifespan,

647
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,940
which is a reasonable estimate for horses, and an average

648
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:22,100
annual cost of some $6,000, which of

649
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,940
course people tell me is cheap. Right. And that doesn't really include any extraordinary

650
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,700
veterinary care that they have to get. But let's assume, try to be conservative here.

651
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:33,700
Okay? Assuming those numbers, the industry would need to

652
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,700
come up with some $2 billion, B billion dollars

653
00:43:38,020 --> 00:43:41,580
in order to guarantee a safe landing for every member of the foal

654
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:46,020
crop. Two billion, that's just this year's foal crop. The same would be needed next

655
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:49,500
year and the year after that and the year after that. Right. And the year

656
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:53,860
after that. So the racing industry, in short, is creating

657
00:43:54,420 --> 00:43:58,100
thousands of horses every year for which it has neither the desire

658
00:43:58,580 --> 00:44:02,420
nor the ability to care for post exploitation at

659
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:06,300
the track, hence slaughter. So they can put out there that we got

660
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:10,419
these strip no slaughter policies and they got these signs saying that

661
00:44:10,919 --> 00:44:14,620
if an owner or trainer is caught knowingly selling his horse

662
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:17,620
to slaughter never happens knowingly is the key word. Right.

663
00:44:18,340 --> 00:44:21,310
He or she will have his license stripped.

664
00:44:22,190 --> 00:44:25,630
First off, that's never happened. So you're telling me that horses aren't going to slaughter

665
00:44:26,130 --> 00:44:29,150
still? Of course they are. Right. No, they are because they're being rescued. You know,

666
00:44:29,310 --> 00:44:30,990
we see it all the. Time on social media.

667
00:44:32,270 --> 00:44:36,070
If, if the number of horses going to slaughter has

668
00:44:36,570 --> 00:44:40,390
decreased and it has, it's not anything

669
00:44:40,890 --> 00:44:44,150
that the racing industry is doing. It's, it's because there

670
00:44:44,650 --> 00:44:48,630
are more people involved on social media, either individuals

671
00:44:49,130 --> 00:44:52,190
or rescue groups getting engaged on this issue.

672
00:44:52,510 --> 00:44:56,070
There is certainly less demand for American horse meat because

673
00:44:56,570 --> 00:45:00,110
of all the drugs in the system. But it has nothing to do with

674
00:45:00,610 --> 00:45:04,470
what the racing industry has tried

675
00:45:04,970 --> 00:45:08,190
to do. So clearly slaughter is still a big issue.

676
00:45:08,590 --> 00:45:12,390
Before we get off on something else, I just wanted to circle back

677
00:45:12,890 --> 00:45:16,430
to Dr. Golikowski. So getting back to the claiming

678
00:45:16,930 --> 00:45:20,230
races and the owners and trainers saying, oh we, they're pampered and we, we treat

679
00:45:20,730 --> 00:45:24,350
them like our own children. Dr. Kolakowski has a great line in his

680
00:45:24,850 --> 00:45:28,750
testimony where he says keeping a, a thousand pound horse locked

681
00:45:29,250 --> 00:45:32,030
in a 12 by 12 stall for over 23 hours a day. He says,

682
00:45:32,530 --> 00:45:36,070
by the way, 23 and a half hours a day. Yeah. Is akin to

683
00:45:36,570 --> 00:45:40,470
keeping a 100 pound child locked in a flag 4x4

684
00:45:40,550 --> 00:45:44,310
closet for over 23 hours a day. So again,

685
00:45:44,550 --> 00:45:48,150
that's the question for an owner or trainer. Would you lock your

686
00:45:48,650 --> 00:45:51,990
child in a 4x4 closet for over 23 hours a day? It's.

687
00:45:52,550 --> 00:45:56,390
If not for the gravity involved, it would be worthy

688
00:45:56,890 --> 00:45:59,350
of an SNL skit. It's all.

689
00:46:00,390 --> 00:46:04,710
So another thing that we see come up as you were talking about the

690
00:46:05,210 --> 00:46:08,650
billions of dollars to the. I'll see you to something once

691
00:46:09,150 --> 00:46:12,410
in a while where people will say, well a portion of,

692
00:46:13,770 --> 00:46:17,330
you know, the handle or, or her better or whatever.

693
00:46:17,830 --> 00:46:20,410
They, people come out with all these different things that they want to do should

694
00:46:20,910 --> 00:46:24,050
go to retirement. So aftercare. But they

695
00:46:24,550 --> 00:46:27,050
would never be able to smoke and mirror. It's absolute,

696
00:46:28,330 --> 00:46:31,570
you know, propaganda and, and it's,

697
00:46:32,070 --> 00:46:36,090
it plays well with the, with the media and the public, you know, aftercare organizations

698
00:46:36,590 --> 00:46:39,700
and they have to retire this horse. A certain person, like you said, a certain

699
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:43,860
percentage of the, of either the handle

700
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:47,940
which is the bet on the horses or the winnings or the

701
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:52,060
entries, they're going to be an entry fee. There's all kinds of, you know,

702
00:46:52,220 --> 00:46:56,620
solutions or supposed solutions bandied about. But it's

703
00:46:57,340 --> 00:47:01,420
drop in the ocean and of course it's never, like I said,

704
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:05,580
$2 million. Where's that money going to come from? Right. All right. The industry's not

705
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:10,380
going to put it up. Let's talk about the industry in

706
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:13,940
decline and also horse racing subsidies.

707
00:47:15,060 --> 00:47:18,540
So we have a page on our website. Tracks that

708
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:22,420
have been shuttered since the year 2000 were up 250. Right.

709
00:47:22,900 --> 00:47:26,260
Just as the year 2000. And in that time, only a handful of new ones

710
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:30,620
have opened. But only, only possible because of

711
00:47:30,940 --> 00:47:34,380
subsidies, taxpayer subsidies. But before we get

712
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:38,460
into the subsidies, all the metrics across the board are down

713
00:47:38,620 --> 00:47:41,780
significantly. As I talked about, the foal prop.

714
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:45,580
But the number of race days, the number of races,

715
00:47:45,740 --> 00:47:48,820
the number of horses racing, which is called

716
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:50,220
the field size,

717
00:47:52,860 --> 00:47:56,140
the amount bet, the handle, the total handle, when adjusted for inflation,

718
00:47:56,780 --> 00:48:01,260
attendance, all of these metrics are down 50% or

719
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:05,500
more over the past couple of decades. Clearly, this industry is

720
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:09,020
in massive decline. Right. It does well on Triple Crown days.

721
00:48:09,580 --> 00:48:13,260
No question. Saratoga does well. Saratoga is one of only

722
00:48:13,740 --> 00:48:17,420
five or six tracks in the entire country that are really profitable.

723
00:48:17,660 --> 00:48:21,100
Okay. The bulk, the vast majority of this industry

724
00:48:21,340 --> 00:48:25,300
is a house of cards that is being propped up by taxpayer

725
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:28,780
subsidies. So round about the turn of the century,

726
00:48:29,900 --> 00:48:34,700
states, racing industry in Pennsylvania,

727
00:48:34,780 --> 00:48:38,260
New York, Ohio, it would be easier to name the states that

728
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:42,380
don't subsidize, mind you. So roughly 75% of the industry

729
00:48:42,540 --> 00:48:46,220
at large is being propped up. So what

730
00:48:46,720 --> 00:48:51,090
they did was they went to their state legislatures and they said, look, with casinos

731
00:48:51,590 --> 00:48:54,450
now and state lotteries, we can no longer compete.

732
00:48:54,530 --> 00:48:57,730
Right. They didn't have all that competition before. Conveniently ignore.

733
00:48:58,770 --> 00:49:02,090
Conveniently ignore that for decades. Dog racing

734
00:49:02,590 --> 00:49:06,050
and horse racing had a monopoly on legal gambling outside of Nevada.

735
00:49:06,550 --> 00:49:10,530
Nevada for decades. So they conveniently leave that out. But they're.

736
00:49:11,030 --> 00:49:14,490
Now they're crying, look, we can't compete anymore. The public is more interested

737
00:49:14,990 --> 00:49:18,540
in casinos and. And now this competition is that much different

738
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:22,100
because of mobile sports betting. Right? Yes. You could pick up your phone and bet

739
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:25,940
on real sports involving autonomous human beings. Baseball, basketball,

740
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:29,820
football, just on your phone. So they went

741
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:33,020
to the legislatures, 2003, 2004,

742
00:49:34,300 --> 00:49:37,460
and they said, look, so many thousands of jobs are tied

743
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:41,100
to the horse racing industry. We need help here. Otherwise these people are going to

744
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:44,510
be out of work when politicians are politicians. Right. And they don't want to be

745
00:49:45,010 --> 00:49:48,590
on the wrong side of this issue. So they voted these subsidies in. They don't

746
00:49:49,090 --> 00:49:51,950
want to be on the wrong side of people losing their jobs. Losing their jobs.

747
00:49:52,450 --> 00:49:55,390
Right. That's about the long and the short of it. Yeah, that was, it was

748
00:49:55,890 --> 00:49:59,310
long before US horse racing wrongs. It was long before anybody was aware of what

749
00:49:59,810 --> 00:50:03,430
was happening in the racing industry. And so

750
00:50:03,930 --> 00:50:07,110
the vote was easy. They voted these subsidies in. So here

751
00:50:07,610 --> 00:50:11,630
we are in both New York and Pennsylvania, over $3 billion in

752
00:50:12,130 --> 00:50:15,630
each state later and taxpayer

753
00:50:16,130 --> 00:50:19,630
subsidies. Right. And where's the racing

754
00:50:20,130 --> 00:50:23,830
industry? They're asking for more money. It's not enough what they're

755
00:50:24,330 --> 00:50:27,630
getting. So what they did was they, it varies from state to

756
00:50:28,130 --> 00:50:31,350
state. Right. But the basic blueprint is this.

757
00:50:31,430 --> 00:50:35,470
Right. They asked for licenses to open up slot parlors

758
00:50:35,970 --> 00:50:39,030
on site at the track. What we call racinos. Racinos. It's a combination

759
00:50:39,530 --> 00:50:42,910
of racetrack and casino. And a portion of that

760
00:50:43,310 --> 00:50:46,790
revenue from the slots machines, instead of going back to the

761
00:50:47,290 --> 00:50:51,150
state in the form of a tax, was being diverted over to

762
00:50:51,650 --> 00:50:54,990
the racing operation to the point where In Pennsylvania,

763
00:50:55,230 --> 00:50:58,790
almost 90%, almost 90% of the purse

764
00:50:59,290 --> 00:51:02,670
money, which is the amount of money that's divvied up among the winning

765
00:51:03,170 --> 00:51:07,470
owners, typically the first, second and third place were historically

766
00:51:08,090 --> 00:51:11,770
first, second, third place. But now because they're so flush with cash from these

767
00:51:12,270 --> 00:51:16,090
casinos, they pay first through last. Right. But the purse money that's

768
00:51:16,590 --> 00:51:19,050
doled out to the owners and trainers,

769
00:51:19,850 --> 00:51:23,050
90, almost 90% is coming from slot machines,

770
00:51:23,290 --> 00:51:27,010
not from money bet on the races and certainly

771
00:51:27,510 --> 00:51:31,370
not from attendance. They don't even count attendance. They don't even charge for attendance.

772
00:51:32,490 --> 00:51:36,700
Right, right. So it's, it's. There's nobody, there's nobody

773
00:51:36,780 --> 00:51:40,140
there. You went, you visited some of them. Right. We did a photo

774
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:44,220
essay on our website. I visited all 11 tracks in New York.

775
00:51:44,720 --> 00:51:48,060
There are seven harness tracks and harness tracks, you know, for people

776
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:51,900
who don't know the harness industry is, is a

777
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:55,020
form of racing where they use a cart. Right. Still have a, you know,

778
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:59,500
a whip wielding driver. Right. And as opposed to the flat races where it's

779
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:03,810
just a jockey on top of same thing. Now it's just all horrible and

780
00:52:04,310 --> 00:52:07,810
exploitative and cruel. But there are seven hardest tracks in

781
00:52:08,310 --> 00:52:12,210
New York. Four throw over tracks. We did a photo essay

782
00:52:12,930 --> 00:52:16,370
trying to go on like a Friday night, which should be theoretically their

783
00:52:16,870 --> 00:52:20,690
big night for the public. And under

784
00:52:21,730 --> 00:52:25,890
60 people at most of these tracks. Full casinos, empty stands. Full casinos,

785
00:52:26,390 --> 00:52:29,950
empty stands. For a way of saying it. And the people at the harness tracks

786
00:52:30,450 --> 00:52:34,150
especially are like 65 year old guys. They're hardened,

787
00:52:34,650 --> 00:52:37,790
what are called horse players. They're lifelong gamblers on horse racing.

788
00:52:39,070 --> 00:52:43,070
There's no young people there. Sarah Tolgett is the lone exception.

789
00:52:43,150 --> 00:52:46,830
Out of 11 tracks, only one is successful.

790
00:52:47,330 --> 00:52:50,870
Only one, Belmont park is not successful outside of one

791
00:52:51,370 --> 00:52:54,930
weekend a year. That Belmont Stakes weekend Triple Crown race, that's it.

792
00:52:55,430 --> 00:52:58,970
Otherwise, it's the same as Aqueduct. It's the same as Finger Lakes. These are dead

793
00:52:59,470 --> 00:53:02,930
tracks. And so 10 of the 11 Del Mar wouldn't have closed because

794
00:53:03,430 --> 00:53:06,850
it is the site of the Triple Crown race. But if

795
00:53:07,250 --> 00:53:10,770
forced to rely just on their own revenue,

796
00:53:10,930 --> 00:53:14,050
10 of 11 would have closed years ago. All six

797
00:53:14,550 --> 00:53:18,170
Pennsylvania tracts would have closed years ago. Without these subsidies, there's no

798
00:53:18,670 --> 00:53:21,490
Saratoga equivalent in Pennsylvania. Right.

799
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:25,760
Um, so. So clearly our task

800
00:53:26,260 --> 00:53:30,160
is that much harder. Right. As activists, because we're.

801
00:53:30,660 --> 00:53:33,200
We not only have to change hearts and minds and get people to look at

802
00:53:33,700 --> 00:53:36,880
this industry through a fresh lens. Something that

803
00:53:37,380 --> 00:53:40,960
I like to like to. To. To say when I'm giving presentations is

804
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:44,560
that I grew up a big sports fan. And although I didn't

805
00:53:45,060 --> 00:53:47,760
follow racing as intently as I. As I did other like football,

806
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:51,790
basketball, baseball, I remember rooting on Seattle Sloan,

807
00:53:52,290 --> 00:53:55,910
Affirmed back in the 70s, and I knew who Secretariat was. Why? Because it was

808
00:53:56,410 --> 00:53:59,550
sold to me as just another sport. Especially here in the Saratoga region.

809
00:53:59,630 --> 00:54:03,310
It dominated the sports pages every single day

810
00:54:03,810 --> 00:54:06,670
in the summertime. Yeah. Still does to a lesser extent.

811
00:54:06,990 --> 00:54:12,710
But the newscast at nighttime, Ledwood, Saratoga horse

812
00:54:13,210 --> 00:54:17,090
racing was on the COVID of Sports Illustrated 46 times in

813
00:54:17,590 --> 00:54:21,130
that iconic magazine's first 30 years. ESPN named

814
00:54:21,630 --> 00:54:24,490
Secretary the 35th greatest athlete of the 20th century.

815
00:54:24,730 --> 00:54:27,970
And there were a couple other horses and a couple jockeys on that list of

816
00:54:28,470 --> 00:54:32,010
top 100. So it was sold to me as another sport.

817
00:54:32,649 --> 00:54:35,890
And that is our big challenge, is to get people to say,

818
00:54:36,390 --> 00:54:39,850
hey, wait a minute here. Why are we still calling this a sport? You know,

819
00:54:40,810 --> 00:54:43,800
we always talk about the analogy with, with dog racing.

820
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:48,080
It's the exact same thing. There's no difference

821
00:54:48,580 --> 00:54:51,800
in the way the respective species are being treated.

822
00:54:52,300 --> 00:54:55,560
In fact, I argue that horse racing is worse because of slaughter.

823
00:54:55,720 --> 00:54:58,840
Something that doesn't exist with dog racing. Yet.

824
00:54:59,240 --> 00:55:02,640
Dog racing was never considered a sport. It was always just

825
00:55:03,140 --> 00:55:06,400
a gambling. Seedy gambling, seedy gambling. I defy anyone

826
00:55:06,900 --> 00:55:10,400
to name one prominent right greyhound in

827
00:55:10,900 --> 00:55:14,680
the history of dog racing. Horse racing. You can name several

828
00:55:15,180 --> 00:55:17,280
right off the top of your head. I just named a few. It's so,

829
00:55:17,780 --> 00:55:21,800
It's. It's no wonder why, you know, the animal rights community really didn't

830
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:25,000
know anything before you came along.

831
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:28,840
Right? Because, you know, I think they just thought,

832
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:34,000
you know, they saw like the Kentucky Derby and you'd see like, Peter PETA

833
00:55:34,500 --> 00:55:37,400
or one of those organizations, they would just put like boycotts at Kentucky Derby,

834
00:55:37,690 --> 00:55:41,290
like a, you know, like a little graphic or something, and that was it.

835
00:55:41,790 --> 00:55:45,370
And I, but I think that everyone, even activists

836
00:55:45,870 --> 00:55:49,490
thought maybe, I don't know if they consciously

837
00:55:49,990 --> 00:55:53,809
thought it, but maybe it just didn't, it didn't seep into their consciousness that this

838
00:55:54,309 --> 00:55:57,930
could be cruel. But you see, these horses are worth millions of dollars and they're

839
00:55:58,430 --> 00:56:01,890
being pampered and they have roses on them and they're bathing them down and they're

840
00:56:02,390 --> 00:56:06,270
shiny and know they're loved. And so I really think that that's why

841
00:56:06,770 --> 00:56:09,310
it was kind of just not. Really under the radar. Yeah,

842
00:56:10,030 --> 00:56:13,590
I'm sure there were people out there, you know, in, in different areas, you know,

843
00:56:14,090 --> 00:56:17,430
maybe holding a protest. You know, like you said, we are ethical vegans

844
00:56:17,930 --> 00:56:21,590
first. Right. That's. We came to this issue already. Animal rights activists.

845
00:56:22,090 --> 00:56:24,990
Right. We spend the lion's share of our time on this because as mentioned,

846
00:56:25,490 --> 00:56:29,240
no one else was doing it. But. Right. We understand that just by

847
00:56:29,740 --> 00:56:33,600
the numbers, this, this is just

848
00:56:34,100 --> 00:56:37,840
a fraction of the overall horror that is animal

849
00:56:38,340 --> 00:56:41,480
exploitation. You know, food, obviously animal

850
00:56:41,980 --> 00:56:45,640
testing, we get fur. But that

851
00:56:46,140 --> 00:56:50,520
makes no difference to the individual exploited horse

852
00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:54,690
in the racing industry. Right, right. And it is our belief

853
00:56:54,930 --> 00:56:58,490
that every exploited species deserves a concentrated

854
00:56:58,990 --> 00:57:02,690
voice. And that's again, why I started this and why you're, you know, you started

855
00:57:03,190 --> 00:57:06,610
the nonprofit. Right. Because we all, they all deserve that,

856
00:57:06,690 --> 00:57:09,970
that voice. So sometimes I,

857
00:57:10,470 --> 00:57:14,290
I've heard activists deride single

858
00:57:14,790 --> 00:57:17,170
issue campaigns, as they call them. I was going to ask you about. This,

859
00:57:18,130 --> 00:57:22,780
but that's, you know, you, you can do both. You can if

860
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:26,500
there's a need, if there's no one else doing it. Like I always, I love

861
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:30,660
sharp. They, they have taken on the, the rodeo industry in America.

862
00:57:31,300 --> 00:57:34,540
They, they're vegans. You know, they're all, they're all in on

863
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:37,460
animal abolition or animal liberation.

864
00:57:38,740 --> 00:57:41,220
Great. 2K, as mentioned, they're vegans.

865
00:57:41,860 --> 00:57:45,260
You know, they're with us philosophically. Right. But they,

866
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:49,510
they saw a need. They need somebody needed to speak for those, those rodeo

867
00:57:50,010 --> 00:57:53,230
animals and for the greyhounds. It's the same thing that we do. You can do

868
00:57:53,730 --> 00:57:57,470
both. You can trumpet the larger message while dedicating

869
00:57:57,550 --> 00:58:00,670
the bulk of your time to one specific species

870
00:58:01,170 --> 00:58:04,350
because again, the horses need that. They desp.

871
00:58:04,590 --> 00:58:07,830
They can't afford to wait for the world to go vegan.

872
00:58:08,330 --> 00:58:10,590
Right, right. That's a long way off, unfortunately.

873
00:58:11,470 --> 00:58:14,870
And food especially is

874
00:58:15,370 --> 00:58:17,770
that highest rung on the ladder. That'll be the last to go.

875
00:58:19,450 --> 00:58:23,570
So in the meantime, we can get these wins and

876
00:58:24,070 --> 00:58:27,530
it made a difference to those greyhounds and right. There's two

877
00:58:28,030 --> 00:58:31,770
tracks left in the entire country. It made a difference. A federal bill. Right.

878
00:58:32,250 --> 00:58:35,930
So those animals who are not bred, you know, to, to live that

879
00:58:36,010 --> 00:58:39,890
life of abject misery in the greyhound industry are,

880
00:58:40,390 --> 00:58:44,780
are, are better for it to today. And so Ringland

881
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:48,820
Brothers is another great example, right. If not for the dedication of the activists

882
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:51,860
who went out there and we were part of that here in Albany,

883
00:58:52,260 --> 00:58:54,660
protesting in front of Ringland performances,

884
00:58:55,460 --> 00:58:58,980
you know, that wouldn't have happened. And that doesn't mean something

885
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:03,460
to those elephants. Of course it does. Right. So that's

886
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:07,820
what we believe and it changes sensibilities too. So then that Beacon

887
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:11,700
message can I do believe that the single issue causes do bring

888
00:59:12,340 --> 00:59:15,980
the plight of one animal to somebody. And we've

889
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:19,500
seen this happen. You know, I can say anecdotally, you know,

890
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:22,260
I don't have hard data and I could, I could reach out to people.

891
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:26,620
I could someday really think about doing that. But so many people who

892
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:30,940
came to our protests or came to the blog on horse racing wrongs and

893
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:34,760
even before that to your animal race blog on the 10G unit right website,

894
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:38,840
that they weren't vegan, they were animal lovers

895
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:42,520
and they came along. I know people who came to our protests

896
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:46,720
and when you're standing around other vegans and I remember one woman who had

897
00:59:47,220 --> 00:59:50,320
told us she came to a few protests, she was so angry that horses were

898
00:59:50,820 --> 00:59:55,080
dying at Saratoga. She went out to lunch a couple days later after attending

899
00:59:55,580 --> 00:59:58,680
one or two protests and she had a chicken sandwich and she just looked at

900
00:59:59,180 --> 01:00:02,730
it and said, what am I doing? And that the pieces, you know, just fell

901
01:00:03,230 --> 01:00:06,290
into place. So there is a, there is, you know,

902
01:00:06,930 --> 01:00:10,770
a place for single issue causes because it, it does when you just,

903
01:00:11,090 --> 01:00:14,610
when you just open someone's eye to one animal, sometimes it

904
01:00:15,110 --> 01:00:19,010
really, sometimes it has to be outside of the companion animals though, because I think,

905
01:00:19,510 --> 01:00:22,490
you know, we have like, these are friends, these are food, you know. But when

906
01:00:22,990 --> 01:00:26,050
you open those single issue causes can do it. Like if someone is wants

907
01:00:26,550 --> 01:00:29,920
to ban now,

908
01:00:30,420 --> 01:00:33,560
they're going to think about that. And then especially if they're surrounded by other vegans

909
01:00:34,060 --> 01:00:36,480
and they're talking about what vegan restaurant and vegan this and vegan that and vegan

910
01:00:36,980 --> 01:00:40,360
tattoos or whatever, we have shirts. It does really, really add

911
01:00:40,860 --> 01:00:44,920
up. And I hope that that's really hope that really resonates and is empowering

912
01:00:45,420 --> 01:00:48,520
to people listening because I do think that, you know, we always

913
01:00:49,020 --> 01:00:51,680
have to be out there being a voice for the animals every chance you get.

914
01:00:52,180 --> 01:00:56,380
And that's something that I'm one, I'm. Always talking about 1%,

915
01:00:56,880 --> 01:01:00,940
obviously. Yeah, this is like a typical conversation

916
01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:04,620
we have like all day long, like at breakfast you talk

917
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:08,380
about all of. These, you talked about the messaging. Right. So with each one

918
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:12,100
of these victories, as one of these cruel industries falls,

919
01:01:13,220 --> 01:01:16,500
the, that animal rights, that larger animal rights messages,

920
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:21,130
the animal liberation, the abolitionist messaging becomes ever more

921
01:01:21,630 --> 01:01:26,170
normalized. And so I like to talk about how a

922
01:01:26,670 --> 01:01:29,810
ringland, you know, eventually, eventually, someday,

923
01:01:31,010 --> 01:01:33,650
probably long after we're gone, but someday,

924
01:01:34,290 --> 01:01:37,490
you know, that, that logic will be repressible. A ringland

925
01:01:37,990 --> 01:01:42,050
elephant is a Saratoga racehorse is a Birmingham Greyhound

926
01:01:42,210 --> 01:01:45,890
is a fur commission mink is a Petland puppy

927
01:01:46,190 --> 01:01:50,350
is a proctor and Gamble rabbit is a Smithfield pig.

928
01:01:50,510 --> 01:01:53,590
Right. And eventually the logic will

929
01:01:54,090 --> 01:01:57,950
be there for, for all to see. And, and if we're going to say that

930
01:01:58,110 --> 01:02:00,750
it's wrong to abuse elephants in the circus.

931
01:02:01,150 --> 01:02:04,510
Right. Then why isn't it wrong to abuse

932
01:02:05,010 --> 01:02:08,270
pigs on a factory farm? And why isn't, isn't it wrong

933
01:02:08,770 --> 01:02:12,360
to, to eat them? So I believe

934
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:15,400
we will get there someday.

935
01:02:16,200 --> 01:02:20,360
But that's another benefit of these so called single issue campaigns.

936
01:02:20,520 --> 01:02:24,000
Again, as long as you come to it from

937
01:02:24,500 --> 01:02:28,920
the animal rights perspective, as long as you are animal,

938
01:02:29,960 --> 01:02:32,920
animal liberationists, as long as you are abolitionists,

939
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:36,880
then yes, you should be

940
01:02:37,380 --> 01:02:40,410
able to focus on, on one, you know, give the lion's share of your time

941
01:02:40,910 --> 01:02:44,330
to one particular or even one or two issues, but at the same time

942
01:02:45,290 --> 01:02:48,890
trumpet the larger message and never miss, we never miss an opportunity

943
01:02:49,050 --> 01:02:51,610
to do video outreach. Right. We're always coming somewhere.

944
01:02:51,930 --> 01:02:55,770
Yeah, yeah, wherever, Massachusetts, Kingston,

945
01:02:56,270 --> 01:02:59,010
wherever we can go. We try to get out there and talk to people and

946
01:02:59,510 --> 01:03:02,730
have those conversations because it's so important. And I think that

947
01:03:03,620 --> 01:03:07,060
it's, you know, just to be out there and talking to people,

948
01:03:07,380 --> 01:03:10,700
whether it's you're at a rodeo protest or a horse

949
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:14,380
racing protest. And a lot of people have said, why don't you have

950
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:18,100
vegan messaging at the horse racing protest? And, and I said, well, I think it's

951
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:21,500
confusing to people to have a vegan outreach at, at a horse, at a horse

952
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:24,900
racing facility, you know, at a track. Um, but I do think.

953
01:03:28,420 --> 01:03:31,380
And then they're going to keep searching. And then like I said,

954
01:03:31,880 --> 01:03:35,740
just that one animal, they understand that

955
01:03:35,820 --> 01:03:39,740
that horse is abused from the moment

956
01:03:39,820 --> 01:03:43,260
he or she is born and discarded.

957
01:03:43,340 --> 01:03:46,580
Birthed her. If they don't, if they're not killed horribly on the

958
01:03:47,080 --> 01:03:50,620
track, they just Understand that. And then they start looking at other animals

959
01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:53,780
the same way. And I think it's. I think it's a good way to get

960
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:58,060
people out of that. I think the companion animals sometimes

961
01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:01,690
do it for people because we've had people on the podcast, you know, tell me

962
01:04:02,190 --> 01:04:05,690
your vegan story and their companion animals, the one that made them vegan.

963
01:04:06,190 --> 01:04:09,810
Yeah, but it doesn't always happen because I think people are just like, you know,

964
01:04:10,310 --> 01:04:13,650
a dog, a cat. And that's what I'm telling you all. The time about people

965
01:04:13,730 --> 01:04:17,650
that came to our issue as horse people.

966
01:04:18,290 --> 01:04:21,770
And just by reading our

967
01:04:22,270 --> 01:04:25,890
website, just by listening to us, they started thinking

968
01:04:26,130 --> 01:04:29,950
about their relationship with other species, and they

969
01:04:30,450 --> 01:04:34,150
made that change. And we don't. Again, we don't have a litmus test.

970
01:04:34,310 --> 01:04:37,670
We don't say, you can only come to our protest if

971
01:04:38,170 --> 01:04:40,790
you are vegan. And we don't.

972
01:04:41,110 --> 01:04:45,590
We would never do that. We would never allow any of our protesters to

973
01:04:46,090 --> 01:04:49,590
make someone feel uncomfortable or they're never. They wouldn't.

974
01:04:49,910 --> 01:04:53,670
Our people wouldn't do it anyway. But we wouldn't allow someone

975
01:04:54,170 --> 01:04:57,540
to ask, hey, are you vegan? Like, are. You know, of course not. We.

976
01:04:58,040 --> 01:05:01,100
We are warm, welcoming and welcoming, and. They'Re going to be vegan. We know it.

977
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:04,500
We have. We're happy to have you on the line with us, standing up for

978
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:09,140
the horses and, and hopefully just by osmosis, just by being around other

979
01:05:09,640 --> 01:05:13,460
vegans that, you know, that you'll. You'll make changes in other

980
01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:16,780
areas of your life. It seems like it's on one of my. Sometimes it's on

981
01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:19,900
the most worst day that I have. You know, this is not, you know,

982
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:23,700
I mean, the beginning of our episode today, it was very

983
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:27,420
solemn, and now we're positive about everything,

984
01:05:27,580 --> 01:05:31,260
right? Because we're out here fighting, right? We want everyone listening to

985
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:34,940
fight and to do little big and small things for animals every

986
01:05:35,440 --> 01:05:39,180
day. But there are hard days. They're really hard days. And it's on some

987
01:05:39,680 --> 01:05:43,580
of those really hard days where I'll have someone that's maybe a blog reader for

988
01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:47,380
the horse racing wrongs blog I'm talking about. And they'll send me a text or

989
01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:51,200
a message and. And they'll say, I'm vegetarian already.

990
01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:56,000
I went a few months ago, how do I go vegan? What do I buy?

991
01:05:56,480 --> 01:05:59,760
And I'm like, oh, my God, here we go. We, you know, it was like.

992
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:03,360
And it's. And these are just happening because from the beginning,

993
01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:07,120
in the horse racing wrongs blog, you had animal

994
01:06:07,620 --> 01:06:11,400
rights language. From the beginning And I remember I still have people who ask us,

995
01:06:11,900 --> 01:06:15,250
like, are you guys vegan? I'm like, okay, maybe you don't follow me on social

996
01:06:15,750 --> 01:06:18,930
media. You're. Patrick's not on social media. You're not on social media, but I am.

997
01:06:19,430 --> 01:06:22,690
And I'm like, maybe they're not looking at my social media. But I think a

998
01:06:23,190 --> 01:06:26,530
lot of times we get. They assume because we're a single issue. Cause that

999
01:06:27,030 --> 01:06:30,370
we're only like horse people. And that's what I say. Like,

1000
01:06:30,870 --> 01:06:34,210
read right in our about section. And I'll

1001
01:06:34,710 --> 01:06:37,330
post that in the show notes too. Big show notes. But I want to make

1002
01:06:37,830 --> 01:06:42,680
sure everyone goes to horseracing.org too. Or even circle

1003
01:06:43,180 --> 01:06:46,400
back on the subsidies. So saying arts and minds,

1004
01:06:46,900 --> 01:06:49,800
obviously, if they ask people to look at this through a fresh lens,

1005
01:06:50,300 --> 01:06:53,960
right? But that's not enough. Because as long as these laws stay on the books,

1006
01:06:54,460 --> 01:06:57,640
these, these, these exploiters won't be laughing all the way to the bank. Right?

1007
01:06:58,140 --> 01:07:00,720
I've got a quote on the website from someone in the harness industry. Now,

1008
01:07:01,220 --> 01:07:04,280
harness racing, as I mentioned earlier, is with the cart.

1009
01:07:05,570 --> 01:07:09,090
Harness racing. And I can state this with 100%

1010
01:07:09,650 --> 01:07:13,370
certitude, harness racing would not exist in

1011
01:07:13,870 --> 01:07:17,330
America today without subsidies, right? Wouldn't be one track left.

1012
01:07:18,530 --> 01:07:22,530
But there's a quote from someone in the harness industry saying that there's

1013
01:07:23,030 --> 01:07:26,530
never been. It's never. There's never been a better time to be involved in harness

1014
01:07:27,030 --> 01:07:30,250
racing than today. Well, how can that be when you

1015
01:07:30,750 --> 01:07:34,200
don't even charge for admission? You don't count admission. Our handle is way down.

1016
01:07:34,520 --> 01:07:38,120
Nobody cares about harness racing. Well, why? Because they're getting so

1017
01:07:38,620 --> 01:07:42,240
much money from the slot machines that should be going back to the states for

1018
01:07:42,740 --> 01:07:45,000
things like education, property tax relief,

1019
01:07:45,500 --> 01:07:48,760
transportation infrastructure, whatever, anything.

1020
01:07:48,920 --> 01:07:52,040
Think about this. In New York, we're about $230 million

1021
01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:55,640
per year in taxpayer subsidies to horse racing. By the

1022
01:07:56,140 --> 01:07:59,620
way, they produce nothing on the other end. I think they return about

1023
01:08:00,120 --> 01:08:03,660
$10 million in tax revenue

1024
01:08:04,160 --> 01:08:07,980
based on their handle. 10 million against 230 million.

1025
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:12,060
So it's a net drain on the New York state economy of $220 million.

1026
01:08:12,940 --> 01:08:16,140
Disgusting. That's about $1 billion every four years.

1027
01:08:16,620 --> 01:08:20,220
Okay? It could be used to hire new teachers or support staff,

1028
01:08:20,860 --> 01:08:24,540
fund lunch programs, repair decaying buildings.

1029
01:08:25,289 --> 01:08:28,649
There's so many better uses for that money than propping up this, this,

1030
01:08:29,049 --> 01:08:33,409
this, this, this cruel, deadly industry. So that's

1031
01:08:33,909 --> 01:08:37,529
our job is to. Is to get these laws changed. We are working in

1032
01:08:38,029 --> 01:08:41,289
both New York and Pennsylvania most recently to try to

1033
01:08:41,789 --> 01:08:44,969
get bills passed. We have a bill in New York.

1034
01:08:45,609 --> 01:08:49,489
We will continue to work on that. We're going to have a bill shortly

1035
01:08:49,989 --> 01:08:51,769
in Pennsylvania which we will keep you updated on,

1036
01:08:53,140 --> 01:08:57,020
you know, take actions and call legislators and say

1037
01:08:57,520 --> 01:09:00,860
this, you know, we don't want our, our taxpayer money going to the racing

1038
01:09:01,360 --> 01:09:04,260
industry any, any longer. So, yes, it's,

1039
01:09:04,760 --> 01:09:08,100
it's, it's a, it's a big part of the problem are these subsidies.

1040
01:09:08,180 --> 01:09:11,660
Right. And it has to be, has to be a trick. And this, it's really,

1041
01:09:12,160 --> 01:09:15,380
I've just this occurred to me. It's a triple deception.

1042
01:09:16,340 --> 01:09:20,780
So they're taxpayers are unwittingly

1043
01:09:21,740 --> 01:09:25,180
paying, supporting, supporting the horse

1044
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:28,500
racing industry. They go to the racinos like you said. They go to the racinos.

1045
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:32,340
They have no idea that a part of their money, no idea to

1046
01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:36,140
the. Horse racing, no idea that there'd be no horse racing if they went to

1047
01:09:36,640 --> 01:09:40,100
a different casino. Right. And then the horse racing industry is hiding

1048
01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:44,750
the cruelty and the death. So it's this triple deception that's

1049
01:09:45,250 --> 01:09:48,630
happening to people. And now if you're in a state,

1050
01:09:48,710 --> 01:09:52,070
there's racing in roughly 38 states. Yeah, around that.

1051
01:09:52,470 --> 01:09:56,110
So if you're in a state that has no racing, you would know nothing

1052
01:09:56,610 --> 01:09:59,230
about any of this. Right. Because you're not, it's not like down the street,

1053
01:09:59,730 --> 01:10:03,270
like, we grew up, you know, in Albany, New York and Saratoga. I went to

1054
01:10:03,510 --> 01:10:07,030
Saratoga racecourse every year as a child with my

1055
01:10:07,530 --> 01:10:10,830
family, and then I went as an adult until I became vegetarian. And then

1056
01:10:11,330 --> 01:10:14,610
I was like, wait a minute, there's animals

1057
01:10:15,110 --> 01:10:17,130
here. Maybe I shouldn't be doing this anymore. And then when I met you,

1058
01:10:17,630 --> 01:10:20,450
I was like, oh, okay. I was that, that little, you know,

1059
01:10:20,610 --> 01:10:24,450
it was, I was right. I didn't know why until I, until you did

1060
01:10:24,950 --> 01:10:28,370
everything you do. But I just think that it's just so,

1061
01:10:30,130 --> 01:10:33,250
you know, it's just so hidden in so many ways.

1062
01:10:33,750 --> 01:10:37,580
And I think people need to know. So what

1063
01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:40,540
can, what can we do? So we'll talk about a few things we can do.

1064
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:44,540
HorseRacingWorms.org is our website, so if you want to learn more there,

1065
01:10:45,100 --> 01:10:48,540
so you can. We have an action group on Facebook where

1066
01:10:49,040 --> 01:10:52,540
we post actions. We don't post actions every

1067
01:10:53,040 --> 01:10:56,260
day, but we post meaningful actions. And a lot of

1068
01:10:56,760 --> 01:11:00,500
times it is maybe to a legislator or a

1069
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:04,540
governor or, you know, sometimes when the FOIAs come out or sometimes we have

1070
01:11:04,700 --> 01:11:07,160
specific actions, sponsors, things like that.

1071
01:11:08,360 --> 01:11:11,800
And then, you know, of course, of course anybody can reach

1072
01:11:12,300 --> 01:11:15,640
out and advocate. It can hold protests. They can organize,

1073
01:11:16,140 --> 01:11:18,920
protest, join a protest. And that's on our website as well.

1074
01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:24,280
Yeah. You know, never miss an opportunity. Remember,

1075
01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:27,160
with any exploited animal,

1076
01:11:28,360 --> 01:11:31,880
we are their voices. Right? Right. They don't, they cannot

1077
01:11:32,380 --> 01:11:36,420
speak for themselves. Right. So never miss an opportunity to advocate

1078
01:11:36,740 --> 01:11:40,180
for horses or any other animal

1079
01:11:40,680 --> 01:11:44,020
that needs us. One more thing before I forget,

1080
01:11:44,420 --> 01:11:48,180
just to circle back again to harness

1081
01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:52,300
racing, because the horses used for harness racing

1082
01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:56,180
are different than the horses used for flat track racing.

1083
01:11:56,260 --> 01:11:59,890
So we have thermal breads for flat track racing. And then we have. And also

1084
01:12:00,130 --> 01:12:03,930
quarter horses are used for flatbed horses too. Right. But the horses

1085
01:12:04,430 --> 01:12:08,330
used for standard bred or standard bred horses used for harness racing.

1086
01:12:08,830 --> 01:12:11,770
Talk about that a little bit. Yeah, they don't die as well. They don't die.

1087
01:12:12,270 --> 01:12:15,569
They don't break down, which is the industry term. They don't break down as often

1088
01:12:15,970 --> 01:12:20,690
as their thoroughbred and quarter horse cousins, but their,

1089
01:12:20,850 --> 01:12:24,740
their length of servitude is much longer,

1090
01:12:24,890 --> 01:12:27,610
typically much longer. We're talking they could go,

1091
01:12:28,250 --> 01:12:32,570
you know, into the 12, 13 years range

1092
01:12:32,890 --> 01:12:35,970
where thoroughbreds typically 5,

1093
01:12:36,050 --> 01:12:39,130
6, sometimes you will see older

1094
01:12:39,630 --> 01:12:43,530
horses. But as a rule, standard breds

1095
01:12:44,030 --> 01:12:46,730
are exploited for longer periods of time.

1096
01:12:46,890 --> 01:12:50,250
Right. And when they're done with them, if they

1097
01:12:50,750 --> 01:12:53,870
don't go directly to slaughter, often they are what, what is called Amish.

1098
01:12:54,190 --> 01:12:56,190
It's, it's, it's a, it's.

1099
01:12:57,150 --> 01:13:00,830
So they're, they're, they fall into the hands of the Amish who

1100
01:13:01,330 --> 01:13:04,590
are notoriously bad to their animals. Very cool.

1101
01:13:04,910 --> 01:13:09,430
They run a lot of puppy mills. They run a lot of these livestock auctions

1102
01:13:09,930 --> 01:13:13,790
which, you know, can, can be

1103
01:13:13,870 --> 01:13:17,230
kill auctions where killer buyers go to,

1104
01:13:17,730 --> 01:13:20,680
uh, you know, to find animals to ship to slaughter.

1105
01:13:20,760 --> 01:13:24,880
Right. So the Amish run these poor standard

1106
01:13:25,380 --> 01:13:28,840
breads into the ground, get every last ounce of work out of

1107
01:13:29,340 --> 01:13:31,480
them, and then they ship them to slaughter. Right.

1108
01:13:32,200 --> 01:13:35,880
So, yeah, I, you know,

1109
01:13:36,380 --> 01:13:40,120
we, we've, we've always, you know, right from the beginning, included the standard breads

1110
01:13:40,200 --> 01:13:43,680
and talk about the cruelty. A lot of people think we don't. So they don't

1111
01:13:44,180 --> 01:13:48,000
understand that we do it. But. And it's just important for people to

1112
01:13:48,500 --> 01:13:52,320
understand that even though they don't die as frequently, their suffering

1113
01:13:52,820 --> 01:13:56,960
is every bit as bad, if not, if not worse. Because just by virtue

1114
01:13:57,460 --> 01:14:01,160
of the length. And I know you use the term racehorse a lot,

1115
01:14:01,660 --> 01:14:04,680
which a lot in the animal rights community would say don't name the animal with

1116
01:14:05,180 --> 01:14:09,120
their servitude, you know, name. And I know you do that

1117
01:14:09,620 --> 01:14:13,410
for a specific reason. Um, I just try to be.

1118
01:14:13,730 --> 01:14:17,210
It's just a, you know, a way to describe, you know,

1119
01:14:17,710 --> 01:14:20,970
what, what animal I'm talking about. It's a racehorse. Right? Right. If I

1120
01:14:21,470 --> 01:14:25,410
just say, you know, a horse died, you know,

1121
01:14:25,570 --> 01:14:28,810
at, at, at parks, I think it's more

1122
01:14:29,310 --> 01:14:32,930
descriptive to say a racehorse died. Right. Well, in that case, a horse died

1123
01:14:33,430 --> 01:14:36,890
at parks, meaning that parks is a racetrack and people know that. Well race.

1124
01:14:37,390 --> 01:14:40,930
But there are other horses on tracks too. There are there what are called pony

1125
01:14:41,430 --> 01:14:44,730
horses. Right. They're not ponies, they're just called a pony horse.

1126
01:14:45,230 --> 01:14:48,290
Right. So they're former racehorses. Right.

1127
01:14:48,790 --> 01:14:53,050
Who are continued to be exploited after their racing career.

1128
01:14:53,130 --> 01:14:56,810
Yeah. Is over. And so their lives are,

1129
01:14:57,310 --> 01:15:00,330
you know, are, are horrible at the track. They're kept in those same

1130
01:15:00,410 --> 01:15:03,610
tidy stalls. And so the pony horse is there to

1131
01:15:04,110 --> 01:15:08,630
escort the racehorse, you know, to and from the

1132
01:15:09,130 --> 01:15:12,870
race. But we, we do get information on those horses

1133
01:15:13,370 --> 01:15:16,910
dying. Sometimes they just collapse and die. Right. You know, at the ripe

1134
01:15:17,410 --> 01:15:21,070
old age of, of 12. And remember, a horse

1135
01:15:21,570 --> 01:15:25,190
can live to 25 or even 30. Right. And remember, there's no

1136
01:15:25,690 --> 01:15:29,430
nowhere for any horse to, to graze or there's no land

1137
01:15:29,590 --> 01:15:32,660
at any track. Right. It's just not, it's just not,

1138
01:15:33,160 --> 01:15:36,460
it's not possible. Right. And you'll never be able to do it either. Right.

1139
01:15:36,780 --> 01:15:40,620
So, so yeah, that's, that's the general overview.

1140
01:15:41,020 --> 01:15:44,020
So like you said, get involved in, in,

1141
01:15:44,520 --> 01:15:47,500
in, in any way. You could write a letter to the editor. You can.

1142
01:15:47,660 --> 01:15:50,980
If you hear someone talking about it on a, a radio, call in show,

1143
01:15:51,480 --> 01:15:54,300
you know, call in. You don't have to be an expert. You just, just,

1144
01:15:54,800 --> 01:15:59,870
you know, read off of our website. Really. We, we encourage people to copy

1145
01:16:00,370 --> 01:16:03,870
and paste. Right? Absolutely. You know, that's why we have it out

1146
01:16:04,370 --> 01:16:06,870
there. And you know, if,

1147
01:16:08,310 --> 01:16:11,950
if, if you need more expert testimony,

1148
01:16:12,450 --> 01:16:16,190
you know, reach out to us and you know, that's our priority. It's always our

1149
01:16:16,690 --> 01:16:20,270
priority. This is our issue. If you have a legislator that

1150
01:16:20,770 --> 01:16:24,350
will meet with us, we will join that call with you. We'll be there.

1151
01:16:24,850 --> 01:16:27,970
We will be there on, on virtually or in person if we can, if we're

1152
01:16:28,470 --> 01:16:28,970
close enough to get there.

1153
01:16:33,530 --> 01:16:37,690
I, the one thing that I always say too, that on

1154
01:16:38,190 --> 01:16:41,369
my worst day, the thing that gets me through, because there are hard days,

1155
01:16:41,869 --> 01:16:45,410
there are videos that we watch and it's hard. And the other thing

1156
01:16:45,910 --> 01:16:49,330
that really gets me through is remembering that these

1157
01:16:49,830 --> 01:16:53,190
horses before we came around to educate were

1158
01:16:53,350 --> 01:16:56,830
virtually ignored for over 150 years. I mean I

1159
01:16:57,330 --> 01:17:00,510
use 150 because I think Saratoga is the oldest sporting venue. They call

1160
01:17:01,010 --> 01:17:04,550
it Sporting quote, sporting venue in the country. And they're over 150

1161
01:17:05,050 --> 01:17:08,310
years old, so. But now these horses are loved,

1162
01:17:09,110 --> 01:17:12,830
they're cared about, they're fought for. And there's just

1163
01:17:13,330 --> 01:17:16,950
people from coast to coast and we have international partners. And I just,

1164
01:17:17,110 --> 01:17:21,390
I feel that horses are such sensitive,

1165
01:17:21,890 --> 01:17:25,750
magnificent, magnificent, spiritual beings. I just really hope

1166
01:17:26,250 --> 01:17:29,470
that they know that we're out there fighting for them. And just some level,

1167
01:17:29,970 --> 01:17:33,390
I think that they do. And I love. I love that line that you use,

1168
01:17:34,670 --> 01:17:38,550
you know, for. They were voiceless for well

1169
01:17:39,050 --> 01:17:42,910
over a century and they died in anonymity. And now

1170
01:17:43,410 --> 01:17:47,230
it's no longer the case because, you know, we're. They have a dedicated voice.

1171
01:17:47,730 --> 01:17:51,110
Horse racing wrongs. And, and, and we'll fight this to our dying

1172
01:17:51,610 --> 01:17:55,190
breath. Right. But we're making progress. Yeah, we're making

1173
01:17:55,690 --> 01:17:58,790
progress again. Go to our website. You'll see the tracks that have closed

1174
01:17:59,290 --> 01:18:02,510
since the year 2000 and some prominent tracks. Right. Arlington in

1175
01:18:03,010 --> 01:18:06,630
outside of Chicago and Golden Gate, Suffolk Downs. Yeah. Golden Gate

1176
01:18:07,130 --> 01:18:11,270
most recently in Northern California. Currently there is no racing in all of Northern California.

1177
01:18:11,430 --> 01:18:14,510
That's huge. All of there are tracks closed this past summer.

1178
01:18:14,750 --> 01:18:18,190
Golden Gate closed. There are three tracks left in the entire

1179
01:18:18,690 --> 01:18:22,390
state right now, and they're all in the South. There is no thoroughbred

1180
01:18:22,890 --> 01:18:26,590
racing in the whole of New England currently after Suffolk Down's closed in Boston,

1181
01:18:27,150 --> 01:18:31,070
we are making progress. And as I mentioned, we're working very hard

1182
01:18:31,150 --> 01:18:34,470
on the subsidies in New York and Pennsylvania. So that can

1183
01:18:34,970 --> 01:18:38,230
be a template for other states. We get a win somewhere. When we get a

1184
01:18:38,730 --> 01:18:41,910
win somewhere, other states will follow. Right. And we've

1185
01:18:42,410 --> 01:18:45,750
had, I would say, 100% success

1186
01:18:46,150 --> 01:18:49,430
fighting off new tracks from opening. I mean,

1187
01:18:49,930 --> 01:18:52,710
there are new track. A couple new tracks have opened. We weren't because of subs,

1188
01:18:53,210 --> 01:18:57,310
because of subsidies. And, you know, they kind of slid under the radar. But Massachusetts,

1189
01:18:57,810 --> 01:19:01,310
I think eight times or ten times. A lot. Ten times,

1190
01:19:01,810 --> 01:19:05,590
I think has tried. And we've been. We help advocates

1191
01:19:06,090 --> 01:19:08,490
there in Georgia, Georgia, Michigan.

1192
01:19:08,970 --> 01:19:12,730
So we just, you know, wherever a new track they're trying to open, people contact

1193
01:19:13,230 --> 01:19:16,330
us and we just try to help them be a voice for the horses

1194
01:19:16,830 --> 01:19:18,970
and. Right. And use everything they can use. And again,

1195
01:19:19,610 --> 01:19:22,810
just really. I'll just finish it up with this. So when we started,

1196
01:19:23,310 --> 01:19:26,250
we were dismissed as animal rights extremists. Right. Just.

1197
01:19:27,370 --> 01:19:31,130
And the Especially being in Saratoga.

1198
01:19:31,290 --> 01:19:34,520
Saratoga base. Yeah. The idea that we were

1199
01:19:35,020 --> 01:19:38,280
going to end horse racing was outrageous. It's never going to happen. So we

1200
01:19:38,780 --> 01:19:41,840
were admonished to work with the industry, you know, make their lives better,

1201
01:19:42,340 --> 01:19:45,480
work on reforms. Right. And so

1202
01:19:45,980 --> 01:19:49,360
since then, we're talking what, 12 years? 11. 12 years. Yeah.

1203
01:19:50,240 --> 01:19:53,880
We. We are to the point where not only are deaths in this

1204
01:19:54,380 --> 01:19:56,800
region, Capital region in New York being reported,

1205
01:19:57,440 --> 01:20:00,800
which was unheard of, which when we first started, we were

1206
01:20:01,300 --> 01:20:05,040
told by a prominent local meteorologist who was

1207
01:20:05,520 --> 01:20:09,360
sympathetic with our, with us and our cause, that you'll

1208
01:20:09,860 --> 01:20:13,440
never get the local media to say anything bad about Saratoga

1209
01:20:13,760 --> 01:20:16,640
because it's such a driver of so popular.

1210
01:20:16,800 --> 01:20:18,960
That's changed. That's changed. It's being reported.

1211
01:20:19,920 --> 01:20:23,480
But also I personally

1212
01:20:23,980 --> 01:20:28,010
had conversations with the editorial board of both the Washington Post

1213
01:20:28,510 --> 01:20:31,970
and the Philadelphia Inquirer. And shortly thereafter, both of

1214
01:20:32,470 --> 01:20:35,810
those boards came out with editorials calling for horse racing to end.

1215
01:20:36,290 --> 01:20:39,850
Not to be reformed, but to end. Right. And most recently, the Pittsburgh

1216
01:20:40,350 --> 01:20:43,370
Post Gazette called for the subsidies in

1217
01:20:43,870 --> 01:20:48,450
Pennsylvania to end. And they cited us in their editorial where we

1218
01:20:48,950 --> 01:20:52,490
are making progress. Right. You know, again, the narrative

1219
01:20:52,990 --> 01:20:56,200
has changed because of. I know. I hope this does

1220
01:20:56,700 --> 01:21:00,240
not sound boastful, but I think it

1221
01:21:00,740 --> 01:21:04,800
serves as a good instructive story for people that

1222
01:21:04,960 --> 01:21:08,800
feel like they can't do anything. They're powerless in the face of animal exploitation.

1223
01:21:10,000 --> 01:21:13,680
If you just concentrate on one or two things

1224
01:21:14,480 --> 01:21:17,600
and arm yourself with facts and evidence,

1225
01:21:18,080 --> 01:21:21,440
you can make a change and you can have an impact.

1226
01:21:21,940 --> 01:21:25,080
And, and I do believe that that's what's happened with us.

1227
01:21:25,240 --> 01:21:28,400
The narrative has changed. People are talking about horse

1228
01:21:28,900 --> 01:21:33,040
racing ending in America. People are talking about following what happened

1229
01:21:33,540 --> 01:21:37,120
with dog racing. So that's a sea change from where we

1230
01:21:37,620 --> 01:21:41,160
began and how we began. And we're

1231
01:21:41,660 --> 01:21:45,120
just two people. So it didn't happen with just Nicole and Patrick. And I say

1232
01:21:45,620 --> 01:21:48,700
that all the time. It had to happen with other

1233
01:21:49,200 --> 01:21:52,500
people. The Leslie's and the Marthas and the Jens and the Baileys and

1234
01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:56,060
the. All these people who came and saw what we

1235
01:21:56,560 --> 01:22:00,180
were doing and wanted to join and saw what these four horses were going through

1236
01:22:00,740 --> 01:22:04,099
and they make. I know, I know. Like, even in

1237
01:22:04,599 --> 01:22:08,620
our horse racing arms action group, I know people I can email and

1238
01:22:09,120 --> 01:22:12,260
say, oh, they live in California, they live in New Jersey. I. We need

1239
01:22:12,760 --> 01:22:16,040
a letter to the editor. Yeah. And wonderful people all over the country.

1240
01:22:16,360 --> 01:22:19,080
And even if, like you said, there's some, it's a network, some of them,

1241
01:22:19,320 --> 01:22:23,560
you know, can't or don't feel comfortable protesting.

1242
01:22:24,060 --> 01:22:27,160
It's not for everyone. Although. Although, having said that,

1243
01:22:27,320 --> 01:22:30,640
it's. It's not, you know, as intimidating as you might

1244
01:22:31,140 --> 01:22:33,800
think. It's not Hard right. It's not. You can just. You don't have to chant

1245
01:22:34,300 --> 01:22:36,360
if you don't feel comfortable chanting. You can just stand there with a sign.

1246
01:22:36,520 --> 01:22:38,920
You can leaflet. You can just offer people information.

1247
01:22:40,050 --> 01:22:43,370
But some people, maybe they can't physically, or maybe there's

1248
01:22:43,870 --> 01:22:47,330
not a track nearby. So there's other ways. And you've got this great writers group

1249
01:22:47,410 --> 01:22:50,810
that you reach out to, and this. Is that

1250
01:22:51,310 --> 01:22:55,010
community of people that was created through horse racing wrongs that

1251
01:22:55,510 --> 01:22:58,330
were just so blessed to have. We are blessed and it's just wonderful people.

1252
01:22:58,830 --> 01:23:02,210
And we've seen progress because of that. And so I say that all the time.

1253
01:23:02,710 --> 01:23:05,770
A lot of people say, you know, Nicole and Pat. Nicole and Pat. And I'm

1254
01:23:06,270 --> 01:23:10,710
like, no, it's. It's this community. And so

1255
01:23:11,210 --> 01:23:14,710
we hope that we inspire people to be as you see we

1256
01:23:15,210 --> 01:23:17,870
do. We are very positive. We've been told within a few.

1257
01:23:18,910 --> 01:23:22,030
We had a reporter do, like, a story about us once,

1258
01:23:22,430 --> 01:23:26,190
and I think in the beginning she said, like, they're so positive and

1259
01:23:26,690 --> 01:23:30,150
we are just. Because I think when you're active, it changes

1260
01:23:30,650 --> 01:23:33,790
things. When you're, when you see animal cruelty every single day on your

1261
01:23:34,290 --> 01:23:37,720
social media feeds and you just feel helpless, it's like, do something.

1262
01:23:37,800 --> 01:23:41,040
Whether it's in the comments. Look, I, I go in the comments for

1263
01:23:41,540 --> 01:23:44,640
other animal issues all the time. And I will speak up for what,

1264
01:23:45,140 --> 01:23:49,200
whatever animal I feel is. Is being treated poorly or if, you know,

1265
01:23:49,700 --> 01:23:53,640
whatever it is or, or sponsor or something and just use your voice and don't

1266
01:23:54,140 --> 01:23:57,320
get into fights. We do have an episode about that. Don't get into fights online,

1267
01:23:57,560 --> 01:24:00,880
but just take that opportunity every day to just find a

1268
01:24:01,380 --> 01:24:05,210
little bit of something and it, and it does really

1269
01:24:05,610 --> 01:24:11,250
feed your soul. And if be active is

1270
01:24:11,750 --> 01:24:15,730
active, be active and you will feel better about it. Yeah. Because you're,

1271
01:24:16,230 --> 01:24:19,450
you're doing, you're trying to do something about it and. Yeah, and, and you will

1272
01:24:19,950 --> 01:24:23,290
get these little victories along the way. They're, you know, they're not as frequent as

1273
01:24:23,790 --> 01:24:26,130
we would like. They don't come as quickly as we would like, but they do

1274
01:24:26,630 --> 01:24:29,660
happen. And when they do, savor them and you move on

1275
01:24:30,160 --> 01:24:33,140
and you keep fighting because the horses need it. The horses any.

1276
01:24:33,460 --> 01:24:37,420
All these exploited animals, they desperately. And there are so many victories

1277
01:24:37,920 --> 01:24:41,220
lately on social media. There's different, you know, in different

1278
01:24:41,720 --> 01:24:44,980
states and there are different municipalities banning, you know, from,

1279
01:24:45,140 --> 01:24:48,660
you know, animal sales or it just,

1280
01:24:49,160 --> 01:24:51,420
it is happening. And I just think it's so important that people stay in it

1281
01:24:51,920 --> 01:24:55,790
and keep being a Voice for the Animals. She's so that is

1282
01:24:56,290 --> 01:24:59,470
it for today. Thank you all for listening. Thank you for listening.

1283
01:24:59,970 --> 01:25:03,550
And thank you. And if you have any questions you can reach out to

1284
01:25:04,050 --> 01:25:07,830
us at I'll put it in the show notes. You can

1285
01:25:08,330 --> 01:25:12,310
reach out to us through our website. Please share this episode with your

1286
01:25:12,810 --> 01:25:16,430
friends. Please make sure you subscribe and we will see you next time on

1287
01:25:16,510 --> 01:25:19,870
behalf. Of animals in so long ever. Thank you

1288
01:25:20,330 --> 01:25:25,050
foreign hey

1289
01:25:25,550 --> 01:25:29,730
friends, if you're enjoying in behalf of animals, don't forget to subscribe wherever

1290
01:25:30,230 --> 01:25:33,770
you listen so you'll never miss an episode. And if you love what we're doing,

1291
01:25:34,270 --> 01:25:36,890
it would mean so much for you to share this podcast with a friend.

1292
01:25:37,050 --> 01:25:41,210
It's one of the best ways to help more people hear these important conversations.

1293
01:25:41,850 --> 01:25:44,650
You can also join our substack community for updates,

1294
01:25:44,890 --> 01:25:47,380
behind the scenes news notes and ways to get involved.

1295
01:25:47,700 --> 01:25:51,500
Thanks for listening. And remember, be a voice for the animals every

1296
01:25:52,000 --> 01:25:52,580
chance you get.