Animal Artivism with Lisa Goldberg

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Foreign.

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Welcome back to In Behalf of Animals. I'm Nicole Arcello.

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What if the talents you already have could help liberate

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animals? Today's episode is a reminder that activism

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is different for everyone. Whether you're an artist, a writer, an organizer,

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or someone who simply shows up, every skill can be used to

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amplify the animals voices. Today I'm chatting with artist

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Lisa Goldberg, whose work shows how creativity can

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become a powerful tool for animal liberation.

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Reaching hearts in ways words sometimes can't.

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So today, while listening, your task is to think about your

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special talents. What are you really good at? It could be something big

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or small. You don't need to be an expert, a full time

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activist, or have a massive platform to make a difference

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for animals. The skills you already have,

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creativity, compassion, your voice,

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all matter in this movement.

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Let's get to it. Here's my conversation with Lisa

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Goldberg. Hi, Lisa. Welcome to

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In Behalf of Animals. Hi, Nicole. Thank you. I'm so here.

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I'm so excited that you're here with me today.

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You are the first artist I think that we have on our show

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and I'm so excited about that. Your artwork is inspirational.

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It's always for a cause. There's so much I want to talk to you about

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today, but we start with a lot of our guests asking,

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what is your vegan story? Of course.

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Yeah, well, so I would say my vegan story

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began as a lot. I've heard a

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lot of people say, you know, when I was a young child

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and didn't want to eat food that looked like an

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animal. So I remember really clearly,

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you know, I wouldn't eat chicken wings or drumsticks

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with the bones still in and spare ribs. I thought,

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why would a cow have a spare rib? Right? Like,

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nothing about it made sense. It wasn't. When I think about it,

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I sometimes think, well, so that was one phase, but that wasn't a phase.

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That was like being clear eyed about what's really happening and what's,

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you know, not wanting to eat animals like children are.

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But of course I got, or in

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my case, and as with most people, I got brainwashed

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or, you know, I started following what people do and

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just started eating animals and I guess, yeah, so for over

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the years, in my teens, in my 20s actually,

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throughout all the years, I was sometimes vegetarian, I was sometimes

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pescatarian. I, you know, I loved animals and I just

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sort of felt like, well, I don't really want to eat them. But I was

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through all of that. I bought into the

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myth of the happy farm and didn't really think that

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they were suffering for me or anyone else

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to be eating them. I just sometimes didn't feel like it and I flipped back

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and forth. So you know, fast forward to seven

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years ago, which is no recent wish

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it was longer ago, but my then 14 year old daughter actually

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who was, you know, she was 14 and she was doing

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on the Internet a lot and she's looking at, I don't know,

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dieting or something and she fell into a rabbit hole all

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about animal agriculture and kind of all at once learned everything about animal

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agriculture. And she told me what, what she was learning.

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Yeah, it was just like I, so I too was

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sort of all at once just stunned into being awake. Yeah.

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So she went vegan overnight. I stopped, I immediately stopped eating

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whatever animals I was still eating at that point, which I was eating

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meat at that point and I was lactose intolerant. So giving

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up dairy was easy. Eggs took me a little longer to understand like,

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you know, what's really wrong if I go

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buy eggs at a farm where I can see tacky looking chickens

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running around and. But I got there too eventually.

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I found pretty quickly Jonathan Saffron Foer's

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book Eating Animals and read that and so anyway, so you know,

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within, within several weeks I, I was vegan too and,

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and just was so awake suddenly to everything. That's,

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that's how it happened. Wow, I love that story so much.

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It's so, it's so different. That's why I love, well, they're vegan story,

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whatever vegan we come across.

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Patrick and I always ask their vegan story even

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before the podcast because it's so interesting and wow, there's like so much

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I want to talk about with your vegan story. But having a 14 year old

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find that, that's really uplifting for me because the

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Internet is a huge tool. Right. And we're always hoping and you

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know, you and I both do activism on social media and on the Internet and

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it's so great. But to have a young person find that on

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their own and find that path and go down that rabbit hole and not shut

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it off and go to the next thing and have, you know, the ADHD of

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that's built into Internet and, and social media and

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whatever and just move on, that's really, that's really great. And I always

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am saying that I feel like so many of us are in the

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animal rights world are kind of aging out. You know, we need new young

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people. So that's, that really makes me feel really great to Hear your story.

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Yeah. And that's true. Yeah. And with your history

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and. And have a moment. A lot of times. We knew

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a young man a couple of years ago who just came into the group,

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and his mom was, like, very worried about him

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being vegan, you know, and sometimes you see that, you know, family members,

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so. But you had this history of always being, you know,

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uncomfortable with it. And I had a woman I worked with

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reminded me of this, that her daughter would say, chicken.

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I'm not eating a chicken. Fish. I'm not eating a fish.

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You know, and I'm vegan. And she's telling me this, and I'm going to.

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You shouldn't make her do it. And she goes, but what is she gonna eat?

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You know, she has to. And I was like, she's telling you what you should

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know. And she's five, you know, and it's like, you know,

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so. So. And. But then. So clear at that time. It's just clear.

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But, yeah, we think they're going through a phase or,

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you know, before. Before we realize that. Yeah.

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And so it was. That's. That's really. That's really interesting. I love that.

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Um, so you are an artist, so I'm sure your art

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precedes your veganism, Is that right? It does. It does.

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So on your website, your work is described as animal artivism.

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You went vegan. When did you start incorporating animals

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or in animal rights into your art? Well,

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so really, really soon after I went vegan because,

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as you said, the art preceded the veganism. I mean,

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my mom and my aunt, who I was close to, were artists,

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and so I grew up, like, making art with them when I was little.

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And, you know, just making art was always sort of part of what I did.

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More. More or less at different times over the years.

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Yeah. Actually, when. When my daughter was little,

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I was reintroduced to picture books. Through reading them to

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her, I got really interested

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in the art of picture books. And when she,

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as she got older and, like, aged out of wanting to take PICT out

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of the library, I just kept taking them out. I was just taking them out

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for me. Yeah. And eventually I decided to take, like,

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an online course about making. About illustrating and

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also writing picture books. Yeah. And so during that time,

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I just. I was drawing more and doing kind of more inspired

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by that, which kind of then turned into art of

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just being. Doing different kinds of art more, incorporating that more into

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my life. So I was in that phase and having taken the

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course about doing picture book art. And actually, I have

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illustrated a couple of picture books, not on animal

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themes. But so, you know, as an illustrator, you're encouraged

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to post artwork on social media. So I

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had already started a few years before going vegan,

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doing that, just posting different kinds of artwork

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on Instagram mostly. And when I became vegan, when I

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did, I started listening to pop podcasts like crazy, and, yeah,

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everything I could get my hands on and really, a lot of podcasts and just

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being horrified by the new information

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that was just so shocking to me. Like, every day I was listening to something,

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hearing something, learning something that was just, like, blowing my mind.

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And so when I hear these things and when

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I heard these things and when I first heard from my daughter, these things,

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I went vegan. So I thought, well, if I tell people about

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this, I mean, as we've. You and I know, we both saw it,

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and so many people think that everybody will go vegan. Everyone I tell will go

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vegan. Everyone I. So I started. So it was just, you know,

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I was making the art. I was learning this. I wanted to get the word

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out. So I started making art about the animals and putting, you know, doing artwork

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and writing a little bit of information and posting it and bite size

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bits and. And, you know, that's how it started. And of

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course, not everybody does go vegan when they. When they hear these things,

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but. Oh, we plant seeds, right? We plant seeds. Yeah.

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So it's so important. Yeah, it's so important.

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And to take something that was already such a big part of you and incorporate

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this new lifestyle, this new world you just

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opened yourself up to into that, that's so awesome. So when you sit down to

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create a new piece, I love your pieces. First of all, I have a sheep

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and a cow that I won at an auction at

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an animal sanctuary. Bid on. Those are your pieces.

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And also, I have at Woodstock

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Animal Sanctuary. Yes, I believe is Woodstock Animal Sanctuary. Right. And yes.

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Okay. So I have two of them in my office. You can't. Well, nobody could.

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We can see each other, but nobody else can. But you can't see them because

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they're on a different wall. And also, we asked you to last

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year, and we repeated it again this year. And this pod might go out a

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little too late for people to order, but they'll still be on our website,

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I'm sure the holiday card for horse racing rocks.

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We gave you some inspiration. Halos was

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a horse that our. Our followers helped rescue off the track.

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When you sit down to create a new piece of

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art, you can tell us what different kinds of art that you do, but do

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you start with the message? Do you start with the animal? Do you start with

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an animal rights issue? What's your inspiration when you sit down?

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Varies. It defin. Varies with that

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piece that you're talking about. The horses. Halo and

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her friend. Yeah, yeah, with that. I mean, I. I knew

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that was going to be horses, and I knew that it was going to somehow

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try to be wintry for the holidays. And, you know,

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I knew she was a white horse and. But like

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a lot of times. And so, you know, so, I mean, just in answer to

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your question, sometimes I do just start with an image and just,

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you know, just paint from that. I.

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In the case of. Of that card and a lot of my other work,

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sometimes what I like to do is to start a piece by just kind

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of being. Doing abstract mark making on the.

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On watercolor paper or canvas and really just being

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playful. And sometimes I write. Sometimes I just sort of free write

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things that I'm thinking sometimes. Yeah, I love that. Yeah. Or quotes

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that I. That I find meaningful to do with a piece that I'm going

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to be making if I know even what it is. Or just playing

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around with materials and collage and inks

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and watercolors that flow and I can't control things like that. So then.

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So sometimes I might start that way and then kind of

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look for shapes in. In an abstract piece.

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Kind of like looking for shapes in clouds, you know, And I'll often

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see animals when I look for shapes in clouds or work

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so that. So something happened that way or sometimes it'll be something else and,

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you know, what comes in later or doesn't or. And sometimes I'll start

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that way because it helps me to loosen up and I find it fun.

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And I like to have layers and kind of. I just feel like it is

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reflective of the complexity of life to have kind

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of a lot of layers and things that went before that. You can't quite tell

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what they are. And there's kind of a mystery of things like. Like there is

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in life. And so with. With the horses,

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I. I had your photos of the horses. And so with that, I started playing

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around with drawing from those pictures on top of the abstract

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play and just evolved from there. Yeah,

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they're big, big, big, big hits. We repeated them again this year because they were

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highly requested that we. That we make them available again.

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And we love them so much. This past year, you were asked

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to design posters for the animal rights march in New York City. Did you choose

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to make. What was your inspiration? Well, yeah. So Rachel, one of

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the organizers at the march, reached out to me, and at

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first, she asked me if I would do three designs

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of any anim I wanted to do.

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And so I. I started out with that, and I did. I.

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I decided on a cow, a pig,

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and an elephant. And those were all pieces. Those were all paintings

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I had already done. And so I designed posters around them

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and chose quotes to put, you know, to put on the posters.

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Yeah, I picked those because, like, the case of a

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cow, I just feel like I. Maybe it's just me, but I just find them

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then, their eyes to be really soulful. And I feel like if,

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you know, if people. If you really look into a cow's eyes and face,

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that you can kind of connect them to your beloved

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companion animals. Yeah. So that was

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why I picked a cow, the pig. I feel like I've just

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met so many people who are averse to pigs, who just

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don't like pigs and think that they're dirty and unappealing. And so

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I wanted to capture that point of view. Yeah. You know,

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and I think. I think pig's eyes are just like a human eye. They're the

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most human. They are the muse. Yeah. They have. Their eyes look like ours

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and. Yeah. Like, it kills me so much that people can't see

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that. That people don't have the opportunity to see how much love they have,

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but. I'm sorry. Go ahead. No, no. So that. That was,

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you know, that's why I picked it. Yeah. Um, and the elephant, I. I just

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feel like. Well, I wanted to do, you know, an animal in. In a.

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In entertainment, and. Yeah, like, just like, almost everybody

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loves elephants, and it just escapes people's notice

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that they're suffering to. Right. Entertainment. To be in zoos.

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To. You know. Yeah. To. Especially to be in zoos, though. I mean,

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it's like just escaping everyone's notice that that's a problem. Or to give elephant rides,

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you know, in Thailand. But I. I went on an elephant ride years

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ago in Thailand. My notice, you know. Yeah.

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Hate to say, but so that. That was the

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first three. And then. And then having done those, Rachel then

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came back and asked if I would do one for fur. And I.

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I did a mink. So then I did two new paintings. One was a mink

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for. For fur, because they're the animals

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who are farmed in the greatest numbers, at least in this country, for fur.

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And then rider, the horse, the carriage horse

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who died New York City a couple of years ago,

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collapsed on the streets and died and inspired the

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proposed law, Rider's Law, which has

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not passed the City Council at all. Just hopefully with the new administration

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coming in, the City Council, the new mayor. But,

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you know, it's very disappointing. There's just been such. Such efforts

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to get this law just

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to have a hearing. This rider's law, which would phase out horse

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carriages, which are so cruel here in New York City.

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And, you know, almost 80% of the

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public supports the law. To the outgoing mayor,

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Eric Adams now supports the law. The incoming Mayor Mandami

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supports the law. Yeah, a lot of City council members,

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I think more than 20 now, have signed on to support the law.

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And the Central Park Conservancy, which makes the rules for the park

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and supposedly knows the most about what's safe and good

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for the park. Yeah, support supports the law.

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And it's just, it's corruption. And our City

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Council speaker being in this terrible,

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you know, relationship with the. The union that represents the

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carriage owners, the horse. The horse and carriage owners.

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That is that actually recently there was something

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that is apparently never done where instead of calling a hearing

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to, you know, to vote on the law, a vote

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was called for the city council members. Not.

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Not all the city council members, just the, I think the health committee, just a

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certain group of. To come in and vote on whether to have a

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hearing for the law. And that group was,

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you know, a self selected group who wasn't going to support having the hearing and

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didn't. So then I just filled the whole thing for the time being. It's just.

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It's awful. It's awful. It's awful. And it's been a long fight in

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New York City. Long fight from before it was ever called Writer's law.

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Yeah. Already. Yeah, it's been.

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It's been a really, really long fight to get these horses off the street.

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So that's. I love that. So what was it?

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I'm glad that that was. The writer was incorporated into

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the march in that way. I couldn't make it down for the march this year,

290
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but. So what was it like seeing your art carried through the

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streets? It was great. It was. It was so. It was really gratifying.

292
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Yeah. See them like out in the wild.

293
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Yes, I love that.

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My art, my vegan art. Out in the wild. I love that.

295
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And, you know, there was a lot of. There were so many really great homemade

296
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posters and other posters also. Yeah. Like such

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a big group of people and, you know, out on

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the street and so loud and so passionate and it was amazing

299
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to see my sisters there. And you Know, and just really

300
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gratifying because that's, you know, I make the art,

301
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hopefully, to be seen. Yeah. To figure out how to get it seen.

302
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So. Yeah, definitely. That's. That was great.

303
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Yeah, I love that. And it's something to be proud of. I think that,

304
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you know, as we go through our activism,

305
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you know, there's so many opportunities that come up, and it's all

306
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about. And I hate saying hard work, but it's

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in. You know, it's just. It's a long game. Right. Animal rights, and we're always

308
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talking about that. Like, it's. It takes time to make change. I mean,

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look, there's still horse carriages in the. In the streets

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in New York City, and they're getting banned in other places, but it's a long

311
00:20:35,780 --> 00:20:39,360
fight, and I think it's. You know, it's just staying consistent and

312
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always putting that message out and not giving up,

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you know? And look, there's more that you've done recently that I want to talk

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about, and I think it's so great and really incorporating your art. I think there's

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a lot of artists out there that I come across that are vegan, and they.

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And they. I think they're. They're not sure what to do, and I think that

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they do post, and. And I really think you can be an inspiration

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to them, because I think they. They post and then they, you know, they didn't

319
00:21:06,380 --> 00:21:10,240
get enough likes or, you know, but it's not about that. It's just continually being

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out there, and then these opportunities arise. Like, okay, now you have your

321
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signs at the. At the march, and, you know, and those signs will be back

322
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next year, I'm sure, because someone's going to keep them and they're going to keep

323
00:21:20,110 --> 00:21:23,890
using them, and that's so awesome. And is there a piece of your art

324
00:21:24,390 --> 00:21:27,770
that's close to your heart, One that feels the most powerful to you?

325
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The one that you want to show the world every

326
00:21:31,830 --> 00:21:35,410
day or just something that's your favorite piece? You know, there's. I think

327
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that there are different ones that I feel are,

328
00:21:40,180 --> 00:21:44,020
like, more powerful than others oftentimes. I think that pieces

329
00:21:44,180 --> 00:21:47,620
in which I've incorporated words in right into

330
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the artwork, like, at a glance,

331
00:21:51,140 --> 00:21:54,220
it kind of. You get it all at once. The words,

332
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I think both of the ones I have, and I can't see them, they're far

333
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,460
too far away for me to tell you what's on them. I should have looked

334
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,300
by the sheep. I know the sheep is the one with the. George Harrison.

335
00:22:05,460 --> 00:22:08,780
Yes. I knew one was George Harrison, but I couldn't remember. And the other one

336
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,800
is probably the cow that says live and let live, maybe.

337
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And then eat plants. I'm not sure. Or no, maybe it's the other. Is it

338
00:22:17,220 --> 00:22:19,600
the dairy cows? The dairy cow, yes. Oh, right.

339
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,680
I love that quote. See, that's one of my favorite quotes. Like,

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00:22:24,180 --> 00:22:27,880
you give up. You give up nothing by going vegan. You just stop taking what

341
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was never yours to take. Yeah. So I just feel like some of

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00:22:32,740 --> 00:22:35,920
these quotes are so powerful, and to put it with an image just

343
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really amplifies the power of the quote, and the quote amplifies

344
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the power of the image. So, I mean, a lot

345
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of times I do art that doesn't have a text in it, but as

346
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far as an act of artivism, I think those are the most powerful.

347
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I guess maybe it's because. Well, I don't

348
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think it's because it's the most recent thing of this kind, but I think

349
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some. I don't know right now, I would say an answer to that question.

350
00:23:04,060 --> 00:23:07,940
That last month in November was prior to November

351
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:12,180
when the call was put out. But there was a call put out by Judson

352
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Memorial Church for artists to submit artworks

353
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that interrogate

354
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the symbol of the American flag as a symbol of liberty and

355
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justice. So when a friend of mine who

356
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is a little bit connected to Judson Church forwarded

357
00:23:33,620 --> 00:23:35,720
the call to me, because I never would have seen that.

358
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I just thought, oh, you know, that's nice of her to forward.

359
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We have. But that's like, flags are not really my wheelhouse. Right. I don't have

360
00:23:44,740 --> 00:23:48,560
anything for that. Um, but then. But it was. It was in advance.

361
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,080
So like, about a week later, it just. The idea popped into

362
00:23:52,580 --> 00:23:56,320
my head of the flag as a transport truck

363
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,480
transporting animals to slaughter. I love that.

364
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And I just was like, oh, well, I could try that. I could try doing

365
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that. So I did, and. And, you know, and I

366
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submitted it, and I had this painting in this show, which. So this

367
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show was the 55th anniversary

368
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of the People's Flag show, which there have not been 55 of them.

369
00:24:20,900 --> 00:24:24,000
There have been two. There was one in 1970, and then there was one this

370
00:24:24,500 --> 00:24:27,400
year. You know, it was like, you know,

371
00:24:28,120 --> 00:24:31,480
a time of a lot of social upheaval and a lot of,

372
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you know, rights being challenged and ignored back

373
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then. And here we are again. Here we are again.

374
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,760
Yeah, so it was interesting because it

375
00:24:43,260 --> 00:24:47,050
wasn't an animal rights show at all. Yeah, it was the only

376
00:24:47,550 --> 00:24:51,290
animal rights piece. And I definitely wondered,

377
00:24:51,790 --> 00:24:55,650
you know, oh, am I not going to get a good reception? Because sometimes I

378
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think when people are really suffering and so many human rights

379
00:25:00,270 --> 00:25:03,650
are being denied and ignored and people are

380
00:25:04,050 --> 00:25:07,050
going through hell, that sometimes people think,

381
00:25:07,550 --> 00:25:10,770
well, this isn't really the time to focus on animals. We have.

382
00:25:11,300 --> 00:25:14,180
Right. So much bad stuff going on for people.

383
00:25:16,500 --> 00:25:19,500
And, you know, and from what I saw, I mean, I was there at the

384
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,180
opening and I, when I went to pick up my painting at the end of

385
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,460
the week, that, that every, that the, that the show was up, I heard from

386
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,260
the curator, the person who was in charge of it, that,

387
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,100
that it got a good reception and I seemed to get a good reception.

388
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,820
That's awesome. So that was, that wasn't what happened. So I was glad to hear

389
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,620
that. Yeah, it was just an opportunity to have this

390
00:25:41,820 --> 00:25:45,620
in a non. In a setting where it was being seen by people who

391
00:25:46,120 --> 00:25:49,860
are not vegan or not nice people necessarily. Maybe some of them

392
00:25:50,360 --> 00:25:54,100
were, but. Right. So that was. I love that felt like, oh, it went

393
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,140
into a. A setting where people are actually seeing it who aren't. Yes.

394
00:25:59,660 --> 00:26:03,020
So. And you're very brave to do that because I think that could

395
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,780
be like, you know, like, what if they say, what if they throw this out?

396
00:26:07,100 --> 00:26:11,030
Because, like, you say a lot of people, you know, and I,

397
00:26:11,530 --> 00:26:14,870
And I think it is a struggle right now with. There are a lot

398
00:26:15,370 --> 00:26:17,870
of human things going on, human causes.

399
00:26:18,190 --> 00:26:21,230
And I, you know, part of the reason why we do

400
00:26:21,730 --> 00:26:24,990
this podcast is to inspire people to be activists all the

401
00:26:25,490 --> 00:26:28,830
time, no matter what's going on, because the animals are still

402
00:26:29,330 --> 00:26:32,270
suffering, still. They still need us and we need to keep going.

403
00:26:33,070 --> 00:26:36,670
And, and you're. That is a perfect example of that is

404
00:26:37,170 --> 00:26:40,490
to be, you know, like, oh, you know, people might not, but I'm gonna do

405
00:26:40,990 --> 00:26:44,210
it anyway. Right? I'm gonna do it. And this is. And that's a transport truck.

406
00:26:44,710 --> 00:26:47,370
That was huge. That was not like picture of a cow with, you know,

407
00:26:47,870 --> 00:26:51,570
something about dairy. That was really bold. And we will put it on our sub

408
00:26:52,070 --> 00:26:55,690
stack companion piece to go that goes along with the. So everyone

409
00:26:56,190 --> 00:26:59,610
can see it and on our website too, so people can go

410
00:27:00,110 --> 00:27:03,450
and look at Lisa's art with links. And I think people can buy your art

411
00:27:03,950 --> 00:27:07,280
too, and we can talk about that at the end. But how. And thinking about

412
00:27:07,780 --> 00:27:10,960
the pieces I have, and, you know, with the words on them.

413
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,880
And it's really great for vegan

414
00:27:15,380 --> 00:27:18,360
animal rights people to have these on their walls at home. So when people come

415
00:27:18,860 --> 00:27:20,760
over and you have one of the. I'm going to move These to my dining

416
00:27:21,260 --> 00:27:24,760
room. Now, I just decided, because I said, you know, this would be good for

417
00:27:25,260 --> 00:27:28,560
our family to walk in, and they know we're vegan, but they forget why sometimes

418
00:27:29,060 --> 00:27:32,050
after you're vegan for a long time. We talk about this a lot, you know,

419
00:27:32,550 --> 00:27:34,810
they forget why you're vegan. They think, oh, yeah, this is a vegan one.

420
00:27:35,310 --> 00:27:38,170
Or they just eat healthy or whatever, and it's like having one of these pieces

421
00:27:38,330 --> 00:27:42,250
on, you know, the dining room wall, and they're looking at this, and they're like,

422
00:27:42,750 --> 00:27:45,930
oh, yeah, they're vegan because of the animals, you know, so that's.

423
00:27:46,570 --> 00:27:49,770
It's. It's like your activism turning into other people's activism.

424
00:27:50,270 --> 00:27:53,850
And, you know, that's what's so beautiful about any kind of art, Whether you

425
00:27:54,410 --> 00:27:58,250
write or you. Or you're an artist and you're drawing or painting,

426
00:27:58,410 --> 00:28:01,530
and it just keeps going. It's just like this.

427
00:28:02,030 --> 00:28:04,810
It's alive, you know, and that's why I love art so much.

428
00:28:05,130 --> 00:28:08,250
That's right. It's like a conversation starter. That's. Yeah.

429
00:28:08,410 --> 00:28:10,250
Actually, I had somebody on,

430
00:28:11,610 --> 00:28:14,410
like, a week before Thanksgiving reach out to me,

431
00:28:15,770 --> 00:28:19,250
because, as you said, I do sell prints of my work for the

432
00:28:19,750 --> 00:28:23,180
shop on my website, and she. She had just ordered a particular piece,

433
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,700
and she was hosting Thanksgiving, and she wanted that piece to get there for Thanksgiving.

434
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,420
Particular piece is one that I. That has been popular.

435
00:28:30,660 --> 00:28:33,620
It's a chicken whose wings are around.

436
00:28:33,940 --> 00:28:34,660
Oh, yes.

437
00:28:37,860 --> 00:28:40,660
This is what chicken wings are really for. Yes.

438
00:28:40,820 --> 00:28:44,180
So, yeah. So that. So that's a. Yeah. Another.

439
00:28:44,660 --> 00:28:47,980
We'll showcase that on our substack because. It'S a great one, too. It's a great

440
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,820
one, too. But I love that, what you said. She was like, I want that

441
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,900
to be in my dining room when my guests are here for Thanksgiving.

442
00:28:56,060 --> 00:28:59,420
So. Yes. Nice. So they can be educated

443
00:28:59,820 --> 00:29:02,380
subliminally or not so subliminally.

444
00:29:02,940 --> 00:29:05,820
So on your website we'll talk about now so we don't forget. So on your

445
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,900
website, we. And what is your website? I'll put it in the show notes.

446
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,540
But yeah, my website is Lisa Goldbergillustration.com.

447
00:29:14,700 --> 00:29:17,820
Okay. We'll put that in the show notes, too, so people can link to that.

448
00:29:18,220 --> 00:29:21,520
And then you sell prints and they come from a third party.

449
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,640
They come. Yeah, they come from a printer called In Print.

450
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,960
Yeah, we do that, too, with. With Horseshoe. Seeking wrongs. We have a third party.

451
00:29:28,460 --> 00:29:32,160
It's. It's a lot easier than handling a lot of merchandise and keeping

452
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,319
without space. Right. So. And then

453
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,800
so people can order prints there. Different sizes,

454
00:29:40,300 --> 00:29:44,640
different. All of your different artwork is there. And I actually recently that's

455
00:29:45,140 --> 00:29:48,660
not so recent. I. I should have it more together than. But I did switch

456
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,660
from one third party to. To this in print which is better and. Oh good.

457
00:29:52,900 --> 00:29:56,620
I. But I do. I need to put some more of my art up there.

458
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,940
But there's. There's stuff there now. There's. Yeah, more. More coming.

459
00:30:00,340 --> 00:30:03,740
Yes, that's good. You always have a lot going on. Um,

460
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,140
and you. So. And you use your art on social media and I see.

461
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,300
And that's. I think that's how I probably met you in

462
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,260
this first time we've seen each other face to face but through social media.

463
00:30:14,900 --> 00:30:18,660
And you post your art in correspondence

464
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:23,180
with whatever's happening. So sometimes you'll have you know, around triple crown

465
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:27,140
races, I'll see, you know, you tag horse racing wrongs and you

466
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,180
do a beautiful summary and you do these beautiful captions

467
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,780
and well like you. Said, I mean it's sort of in response to whatever's happening

468
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:39,940
but there's always so much happening. So whatever happened to hatch

469
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:44,060
my addiction that I just. And more things than I can address

470
00:30:44,710 --> 00:30:48,670
are always my. All of our attention. But. But yeah,

471
00:30:49,170 --> 00:30:52,750
so some I'll decide on something and. And some well researched

472
00:30:53,250 --> 00:30:56,790
captions too. And they're you know, and they're long and all the information's

473
00:30:57,290 --> 00:31:00,309
there and you tag organizations and. And I, I love that so much.

474
00:31:00,809 --> 00:31:04,310
It's so yeah. Sometimes it's to high like highlight an organization like Horseshoes. Yeah.

475
00:31:04,390 --> 00:31:07,470
That does so much and where you can. Where you can go find out more

476
00:31:07,970 --> 00:31:11,790
from that and then support the organization. Sometimes that or

477
00:31:12,290 --> 00:31:15,760
sometimes just you know, to share still like I did in the beginning,

478
00:31:16,260 --> 00:31:20,440
just you know, share some information about what happens to animals that people are unaware

479
00:31:20,940 --> 00:31:24,400
of so often or. So what advice would you give to other artists?

480
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,680
If someone's an artist and they vegan, animal rights activist,

481
00:31:29,180 --> 00:31:33,720
do you have any advice how they can start incorporating

482
00:31:34,220 --> 00:31:37,520
it into their work? Start? Yeah, just start. Yeah,

483
00:31:38,020 --> 00:31:43,240
I mean I. Because you know, I think. I mean with anything creative you

484
00:31:43,740 --> 00:31:46,880
kind of just have to just start and maybe. I mean and any. I mean

485
00:31:47,380 --> 00:31:50,840
with anything, I mean anything creative, whether it's arts or like.

486
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,640
Like what. What you guys do. Just figuring out just in using your

487
00:31:55,140 --> 00:31:58,920
talents. Right? Yeah. Yeah. I don't have to go by trial and error

488
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,640
because you know, you don't know what's going to work

489
00:32:03,140 --> 00:32:06,880
or what's going to work for you to do or make and

490
00:32:07,380 --> 00:32:10,830
what's you know what you're going to feel motivated to keep making

491
00:32:10,990 --> 00:32:14,990
or doing, and you kind of just have to start somewhere

492
00:32:15,390 --> 00:32:19,630
and see what happens. I think it's great, like, you know, using whatever

493
00:32:20,130 --> 00:32:23,230
talent you have, if you, you know, if you're good at editing videos, then,

494
00:32:23,630 --> 00:32:27,350
you know, if you can't make them, then, you know, volunteer somewhere,

495
00:32:27,850 --> 00:32:31,630
you know, to edit videos or something like that, or whatever talent you have,

496
00:32:32,030 --> 00:32:36,160
you know, use it. And I think that artists have so much to

497
00:32:36,660 --> 00:32:39,600
give, but I just want. I want one other thing that I would just say

498
00:32:40,100 --> 00:32:43,560
about that. Yeah, about, you know, is it.

499
00:32:44,060 --> 00:32:48,000
You kind of alluded to this before, but just that you kind of have

500
00:32:48,500 --> 00:32:51,280
to just ignore how many likes you get or what. Yes,

501
00:32:51,780 --> 00:32:55,040
I love that. Yes. You know, I don't

502
00:32:55,540 --> 00:32:59,080
know. I. A lot of times I feel like I get completely

503
00:32:59,580 --> 00:33:02,640
not seen or ignored or maybe people just don't like. Or whatever it is.

504
00:33:03,140 --> 00:33:07,150
I never really know what that's gonna bring. You know, strike algorithms sometimes.

505
00:33:07,650 --> 00:33:10,950
Yeah, just the algorithm. Yeah. So it's just, you know,

506
00:33:11,450 --> 00:33:14,830
to focus on what you're doing and. Yes. Let the

507
00:33:15,330 --> 00:33:19,310
response go. Right. Yeah, just keep going because.

508
00:33:19,630 --> 00:33:23,310
Yeah. Consistency is the. Is the most important thing, I think, and just believing

509
00:33:23,810 --> 00:33:26,950
in what you do. And thanks for saying that because a lot of.

510
00:33:27,450 --> 00:33:30,430
I think a lot of people start out by,

511
00:33:30,670 --> 00:33:33,710
you know, they. They post a video or they post a picture,

512
00:33:34,210 --> 00:33:37,110
they post some of their art, and then they just stop because they're like,

513
00:33:37,610 --> 00:33:41,230
oh, no one sees it. And. But I find the more consistent you are,

514
00:33:41,310 --> 00:33:45,110
that's when, you know, the more people see things and. And then opportunities

515
00:33:45,610 --> 00:33:48,750
arise. Like you're making, you know, posters for the animal rights march,

516
00:33:49,870 --> 00:33:53,470
right? No, it's. Right, because it could be like, maybe just like five people

517
00:33:53,970 --> 00:33:56,630
see something and one of them is somebody that wants to, you know, use it

518
00:33:57,130 --> 00:34:00,470
for cards or. Use it. Yeah. Or have

519
00:34:00,970 --> 00:34:04,310
you. Yeah. Posters for the marks. Yeah, yeah. And then it really gets out there

520
00:34:04,810 --> 00:34:08,030
and it's. And inspires people, and I think that's great. What gives you

521
00:34:08,530 --> 00:34:12,390
hope or keeps you inspired to keep creating for animals even when this

522
00:34:12,470 --> 00:34:15,430
work feels emotionally heavy? Well,

523
00:34:16,070 --> 00:34:19,590
I mean, art is a great outlet. So, yeah, like.

524
00:34:19,830 --> 00:34:23,350
Yeah. And I get. I get super stuck.

525
00:34:23,850 --> 00:34:27,590
Actually. I think a lot of. A lot of creative people that I know struggle

526
00:34:28,090 --> 00:34:32,220
with creative block and just getting stuck. And so,

527
00:34:32,720 --> 00:34:35,860
yeah, you know, it's different things, but I

528
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,940
mean, one thing I would say is that, you know,

529
00:34:39,420 --> 00:34:42,940
the animal, this isn't addressed. That when things get really heavy. And I will.

530
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,940
But, you know, just the Animals kind of can help me

531
00:34:47,179 --> 00:34:50,700
get through creative block in the sense that part of creative block

532
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,540
is often a perfectionist tendency. And when

533
00:34:54,620 --> 00:34:57,900
it comes to the animals that are. Who are

534
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,170
suffering every minute of every day, there's no time

535
00:35:02,670 --> 00:35:06,050
for trying to be perfect or for it to be about me and whether what

536
00:35:06,550 --> 00:35:09,690
I'm posting is exactly how I want it to look. It's just like, get the

537
00:35:10,190 --> 00:35:12,090
message out. Just get it out there. Exactly. Yeah.

538
00:35:13,370 --> 00:35:16,810
But then. Yeah, I mean, sometimes, you know, when things.

539
00:35:17,370 --> 00:35:21,210
Things get really hard, I mean, certainly just

540
00:35:21,290 --> 00:35:25,210
the community of vegans and of

541
00:35:25,710 --> 00:35:28,910
people doing amazing things, like you and Patrick and like,

542
00:35:28,990 --> 00:35:32,990
just, you know, the. The people that I know through some different channels,

543
00:35:33,490 --> 00:35:36,710
like podcasts and organizations. Part of.

544
00:35:37,210 --> 00:35:40,870
A. Part of a vegan artist collective.

545
00:35:41,370 --> 00:35:44,470
It's an international artist collective called the Art of Compassion. Yes.

546
00:35:44,970 --> 00:35:48,510
I wanted you to talk about that, too. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Yeah.

547
00:35:48,590 --> 00:35:51,870
So. Yeah, so. Well, so, I mean, I'll talk about

548
00:35:52,370 --> 00:35:55,460
that, but yeah. So what keeps me just, you know,

549
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,660
the. The getting myself back into a

550
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,180
place where people are talking my language or like.

551
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:07,340
Yes. Like. Yeah. Recognizing what's happening and wanting to do

552
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:12,180
something about it and, you know, because it can just be especially

553
00:36:12,340 --> 00:36:15,460
hard when. Sometimes especially hard when, you know,

554
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,380
people who. I have many, many dear

555
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,740
friends who aren't vegan, who are some of the most wonderful

556
00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:28,140
people that I know in the world, but for some people on this one issue,

557
00:36:29,660 --> 00:36:33,020
they're. They're just. It's not totally clicking,

558
00:36:34,220 --> 00:36:37,900
so that's hard. Yeah. So just to.

559
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,660
To return to where. Right. Go find your people.

560
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,420
Right? Yeah. Yeah. Go find your people. Yeah. Oh, and I

561
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:49,730
guess I was going to say, you know, I. I said that just, just sometimes

562
00:36:50,230 --> 00:36:53,810
just doing art for. For just making stuff.

563
00:36:54,310 --> 00:36:58,250
It's like. Yeah, just make. It's just starting on a bunch of canvases or papers

564
00:36:58,750 --> 00:37:02,530
with abstract. Or doing a lot of writing. Writing can be really therapeutic. And I

565
00:37:02,770 --> 00:37:06,170
write underneath my painting, so those kinds of things. I like that,

566
00:37:06,670 --> 00:37:09,330
too. Yeah. And I like what you said about, you know,

567
00:37:10,370 --> 00:37:13,410
the perfectionist stuff. And I think a

568
00:37:13,910 --> 00:37:17,750
lot of people with anything that they're doing in advocacy are

569
00:37:18,250 --> 00:37:21,350
so worried about how they're gonna look. How are people,

570
00:37:21,850 --> 00:37:24,870
how are they gonna look to other people, how they're gonna be perceived by other

571
00:37:25,370 --> 00:37:29,630
people, or, you know, artists would be, you know, the perfectionism thing.

572
00:37:30,130 --> 00:37:33,670
And then when you even picking up a phone and calling, you know, a legislator,

573
00:37:34,070 --> 00:37:37,150
they're so worried they're gonna not say the right thing, and they're scared. And,

574
00:37:37,650 --> 00:37:41,190
you know, what if they yell at me or whatever, whatever the. The issue

575
00:37:41,690 --> 00:37:45,550
is. But when you remind yourself, like you said, that it's for the animals and

576
00:37:46,050 --> 00:37:48,910
that they're suffering and we're working to end the suffering, it kind of all that

577
00:37:49,410 --> 00:37:52,470
kind of goes away. Right? So it's like, you know,

578
00:37:52,630 --> 00:37:55,670
and. And my daughter actually asked me this the other day.

579
00:37:55,750 --> 00:37:59,670
I have a. My purse has tons of pins

580
00:38:00,170 --> 00:38:03,430
on it, and it has go vegan. And it has stop animal testing. It has

581
00:38:03,930 --> 00:38:06,390
the fur with the line through it, and I can't remember. I don't have it

582
00:38:06,890 --> 00:38:10,030
with me. I have, like, I don't know, like, 12 pins on it. And she

583
00:38:10,530 --> 00:38:14,220
said, how do you have the confidence to wear that? And I said, what do

584
00:38:14,720 --> 00:38:16,660
you mean? And she goes, what if someone says something? I said, first of all,

585
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,700
what are they gonna say? And I said, you know, I have the confidence

586
00:38:21,020 --> 00:38:24,180
because I don't. I. First of all, I don't have the confidence all

587
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:27,900
the time. You know, like, if I'm in the grocery store and, you know,

588
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,260
I'm not ready for a conversation, but then I tell myself,

589
00:38:31,580 --> 00:38:34,780
you know, I have to speak for the animals. If this person is

590
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:36,940
like, oh, I could never go vegan, what am I gonna say to that?

591
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,140
You know, so that kind of a thing, you know, just always remember. So I

592
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:43,580
like how. How you said that. And so. Okay, tell me about this collaborative.

593
00:38:43,820 --> 00:38:47,420
Tell us about that. Oh, yeah, the art project. Yeah,

594
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:51,980
It's Passion project. Yeah. It's a international group of

595
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,780
artists and was formed,

596
00:38:56,280 --> 00:39:00,460
and projects that we do are organized by Lee

597
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:05,060
Sanders, a woman who lives outside of Barcelona and Spain. People are

598
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:09,740
all over the world. Yeah, I love that. Yeah. And so there. So she

599
00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:14,920
and a few other members who. Who organize with her organize

600
00:39:15,240 --> 00:39:18,120
a number of projects every year,

601
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,520
and she puts a call out for whatever they're

602
00:39:22,020 --> 00:39:25,800
looking for. It might be for. There's an annual calendar that comes out.

603
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:30,760
We've done, like, oracle cards that have animals

604
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,120
on them and, you know, like, a bit of

605
00:39:34,620 --> 00:39:37,960
wisdom that sort of has a connection to each

606
00:39:38,460 --> 00:39:41,650
animal on the back that are really fun. They're great. I love these oracle cards.

607
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,800
You pick one for the. For each day, and it's like your. Your sort of

608
00:39:46,300 --> 00:39:49,920
mantra for the day. So there's lots of different projects. There's recipe books

609
00:39:50,420 --> 00:39:54,280
and different things. And each project has an organization,

610
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:58,280
either a nonprofit, always a nonprofit organization, but it might be a sanctuary

611
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:02,200
or it might be beganuary, or it might be, you know,

612
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,560
different organizations that do different things on behalf of animals,

613
00:40:06,060 --> 00:40:10,020
that all. All profits from the sale of whatever

614
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:12,060
this project is goes to.

615
00:40:13,900 --> 00:40:16,860
And there are. We haven't had.

616
00:40:17,340 --> 00:40:21,660
There's a lot of people in the uk artists

617
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:26,100
in the UK who bring art prints,

618
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:30,620
which we also, you know, will donate our art to be printed for these,

619
00:40:31,340 --> 00:40:34,940
like, edge desks and things to put up at a booth with

620
00:40:35,740 --> 00:40:39,480
art in aid of whatever organization

621
00:40:39,980 --> 00:40:43,560
or sanctuary. It's an aid of that time. Oh, I like that. I would love

622
00:40:44,060 --> 00:40:47,760
for that to happen here. There aren't as many artists in the US as

623
00:40:48,260 --> 00:40:51,480
in the UK that are part of the. The collective, but there are some.

624
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,840
So. Yeah. Well, maybe some new ones will listen today.

625
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,440
Yeah, they'll get in touch. Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely.

626
00:40:58,940 --> 00:41:02,640
Because everybody is, you know, welcome. So I can definitely connect anybody who's

627
00:41:03,140 --> 00:41:07,480
interested with Lee to. Yeah. To get involved. But yeah,

628
00:41:07,980 --> 00:41:11,200
so. So that's what it is. And it's just. It's. It's a wonderful group of

629
00:41:11,700 --> 00:41:15,120
people making art for animals. Yeah, that's great. And more of being

630
00:41:15,620 --> 00:41:18,760
around your own people. Yeah. And it's like. And these are our people and,

631
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,600
you know, animal people. So that's. That's great. And that's another.

632
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:26,960
Another reason for our podcast, too, is just to give people

633
00:41:27,460 --> 00:41:30,980
a place to go, to listen, to be like, hey, these are my

634
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,180
people and I can tune the rest of the world out for an hour,

635
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:37,860
an hour and a half or whatever and just be around my people and,

636
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,500
and, and be inspired by each other. And. So what's next? So what do you

637
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:45,660
have going? Oh, there's Free Happy Campaign three days from now. Oh,

638
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:49,900
my goodness. Yeah. So the Save Art Space is

639
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,860
an organization, if, for people who don't know that, it's a nonprofit

640
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:57,960
organization that saves billboard space and

641
00:41:58,460 --> 00:42:02,360
bus shelter poster spaces for art exhibits.

642
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,720
So they'll have, you know, like a month at a time, typically, I think,

643
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,600
an art exhibit. And it's in cities around the country. And it's

644
00:42:10,100 --> 00:42:13,680
on all different themes. Sometimes there are different calls put out. And I

645
00:42:14,180 --> 00:42:18,040
didn't know much about it until this Free Happy Campaign came along, which has

646
00:42:18,540 --> 00:42:21,960
been funded and curated by Cynthia Von Buehler,

647
00:42:22,710 --> 00:42:26,390
who is an artist herself and an activist and an artivist.

648
00:42:26,630 --> 00:42:29,750
So she. So she put out a call for

649
00:42:30,250 --> 00:42:33,270
elephant Art, and it's all to be

650
00:42:33,770 --> 00:42:37,670
part of this Free Happy Save Art Space exhibition on

651
00:42:38,170 --> 00:42:41,750
billboards around New York City. Oh, that's awesome. And, yeah,

652
00:42:42,250 --> 00:42:45,710
so I submitted for that. I've submitted a few pieces, and one of

653
00:42:46,210 --> 00:42:49,430
my was accepted. So I was one of six

654
00:42:49,510 --> 00:42:53,030
billboards that signed me up with Elephant Art and

655
00:42:53,530 --> 00:42:57,530
With the hashtag Free Happy Campaign around in

656
00:42:58,030 --> 00:43:01,370
Queens and the Bronx in Brooklyn, starting December

657
00:43:01,870 --> 00:43:04,930
5th and running through the end of December. What it's all about is

658
00:43:05,170 --> 00:43:09,170
the Free Happy Campaign, which goes back long before this particular

659
00:43:10,049 --> 00:43:13,450
edition. It's about Happy, an elephant at

660
00:43:13,950 --> 00:43:17,410
the Bronx Zoo, right. Who has been imprisoned at the Bronx zoo for

661
00:43:17,910 --> 00:43:21,790
almost 50 years and the Non

662
00:43:21,870 --> 00:43:25,790
Human Rights Project, the, the past many years.

663
00:43:26,290 --> 00:43:29,950
I can't remember how many of those 50 she's been alone.

664
00:43:30,190 --> 00:43:33,550
Isolated elephants are highly social,

665
00:43:33,790 --> 00:43:37,110
intelligent, emotional beings and you know,

666
00:43:37,610 --> 00:43:40,950
it's, they suffer horribly being in zoos

667
00:43:41,450 --> 00:43:44,750
where they can't walk the hundreds of miles they need

668
00:43:44,830 --> 00:43:48,470
and naturally do walk in their

669
00:43:48,970 --> 00:43:52,790
native habitat. And you know, they, they're in their herd.

670
00:43:53,290 --> 00:43:57,990
They're, they're live with their families for years and years. They're very sore

671
00:43:58,490 --> 00:44:02,550
when their family members die. They very emotional and intelligent

672
00:44:03,050 --> 00:44:06,390
being and to be completely isolated is,

673
00:44:06,890 --> 00:44:10,950
is just so cruel, heartbreaking and unconscionable.

674
00:44:11,450 --> 00:44:14,920
And so the Non Human Rights Project, which is

675
00:44:15,420 --> 00:44:19,040
the only civil rights organization in

676
00:44:19,540 --> 00:44:23,120
the US or maybe in the world in the US to focus solely on

677
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:26,880
animal rights, has been, you know,

678
00:44:27,519 --> 00:44:31,200
has had a legal battle going on behalf of Happy

679
00:44:31,700 --> 00:44:35,520
for a long time now, as well as on behalf of other elephants

680
00:44:36,020 --> 00:44:40,270
held in US Zoos. So this is an awareness

681
00:44:40,350 --> 00:44:44,190
raising campaign to help,

682
00:44:44,750 --> 00:44:48,350
help raise awareness about their cause. Yeah, they're another

683
00:44:48,850 --> 00:44:52,830
great organization to support and just learn about their work and support

684
00:44:53,550 --> 00:44:56,670
if people can. But it's just,

685
00:44:57,310 --> 00:45:00,670
it's just astonishing. Again,

686
00:45:01,070 --> 00:45:04,470
you know, just everything is astonishing when you really stop and think

687
00:45:04,970 --> 00:45:07,990
about what this being is going through.

688
00:45:08,310 --> 00:45:12,070
Awful. Multiplied by the billions and the trillions.

689
00:45:12,150 --> 00:45:15,110
Right. Like what, what are we doing? Yeah.

690
00:45:15,350 --> 00:45:18,550
This is simple. It's easy. It is, isn't it? Wrong.

691
00:45:18,710 --> 00:45:21,990
Oh, it's wrong. Let's stop doing this. There's a sanctuary

692
00:45:22,490 --> 00:45:25,670
ready to take her. Let's send her. I know it's awful. They were here

693
00:45:25,830 --> 00:45:29,310
in Albany a few years ago. We, Patrick and I went and Ellen

694
00:45:29,810 --> 00:45:32,470
went down to the rally before the court case because I think it was,

695
00:45:32,970 --> 00:45:36,450
I think it was a court of appeals they were going to, to argue

696
00:45:36,690 --> 00:45:40,170
for, for Happy. And it's just so

697
00:45:40,670 --> 00:45:44,090
heartbreaking and I, they, they lost obviously, you know, but it's

698
00:45:44,590 --> 00:45:47,970
still ongoing and I'm so happy. These are the

699
00:45:48,470 --> 00:45:51,890
things that keep us going because now this is happening for Happy

700
00:45:52,390 --> 00:45:56,330
and this in, you know, it's a long game and you know, it's not

701
00:45:56,830 --> 00:45:59,970
being dropped is you have to just keep going and it's the only thing

702
00:46:00,050 --> 00:46:03,520
it's the only way we're going to, you know, end animal sufferings.

703
00:46:04,020 --> 00:46:07,160
The only way we're going to is just keep going and going and, and that's.

704
00:46:07,660 --> 00:46:10,960
It's hard, you know, but, but we have to do that,

705
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:14,960
right? It's hard. But then when, like, as you said, when you're like focusing

706
00:46:15,460 --> 00:46:19,080
on your people, the people who are also to

707
00:46:19,580 --> 00:46:23,040
keep fighting that fight and yeah, you know, step by step, do one

708
00:46:23,540 --> 00:46:26,720
more thing, the next thing. And yeah, and what a

709
00:46:27,220 --> 00:46:30,140
great time of year to have those billboards up because you know, people are traveling

710
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:33,860
to New York City like crazy right now, right in the, in December. It's,

711
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,060
you know, and people are going to see that. And that's, that's just amazing.

712
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:40,580
I love that so much. I'm so excited your art is in there. Go make

713
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:44,340
a trip up to Astoria, Queens, because that's where mine's going to be. Oh great.

714
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,660
And you're going to take pictures and post it and then, and get it out

715
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,820
there to thousands and thousands of people. More people.

716
00:46:51,780 --> 00:46:55,340
So anything else coming up in New Mexico? My husband

717
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:59,300
is from New Mexico and last winter at the at,

718
00:46:59,720 --> 00:47:03,600
between Christmas to New Year's we always spend in New Mexico and

719
00:47:04,100 --> 00:47:08,480
outside of Albuquerque there's a sanctuary called Sanctuario de Coruna,

720
00:47:08,980 --> 00:47:12,800
which is like a magical, magical place if anyone is visiting Albuquerque to go

721
00:47:13,300 --> 00:47:16,440
to this little sanctuary. It's such a beautiful spot.

722
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:20,520
And going to New Mexico in the winter,

723
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:24,240
the roads can be impassable to get there. So for a number of years

724
00:47:24,740 --> 00:47:28,400
running we just couldn't get there. We're trying to go with my 90 year

725
00:47:28,900 --> 00:47:32,150
old mother in law and it just, it wasn't going to happen. But,

726
00:47:32,470 --> 00:47:36,470
but last year it happened. The roads were possible and we got there and

727
00:47:36,970 --> 00:47:40,590
anyway, so since then I have on occasion I took pictures

728
00:47:41,090 --> 00:47:45,549
of the animals when I was there and occasionally I post drawings

729
00:47:46,049 --> 00:47:49,350
and paintings of the animals from there. And so a couple of times they've picked

730
00:47:49,850 --> 00:47:54,030
up on a draw, a drawing once and a painting more recently and

731
00:47:54,530 --> 00:47:58,170
turned them into put them on shirts and cards. Oh, that's so. Yeah, so there.

732
00:47:58,670 --> 00:48:02,610
So, so there. So they, they had until very recently

733
00:48:03,110 --> 00:48:06,610
they had two donkeys there, Hondo and Isabel. And I

734
00:48:06,770 --> 00:48:10,130
had done a little painting of Hondo and Isabel a couple months

735
00:48:10,630 --> 00:48:14,250
ago and just it so happened that Isabel very

736
00:48:14,750 --> 00:48:17,970
shortly after that passed away. And so, so that

737
00:48:18,470 --> 00:48:22,610
little painting that had been posted recently before that they,

738
00:48:23,110 --> 00:48:27,290
it became something that they wanted to use for a little project in

739
00:48:27,790 --> 00:48:31,390
mem. So, so, so their holiday fundraiser is

740
00:48:31,790 --> 00:48:36,030
this Upcoming Saturday or Sunday in

741
00:48:36,530 --> 00:48:40,430
Albuquerque. They are Santuario de Coruna. So anyone's

742
00:48:40,930 --> 00:48:44,350
out there, you can look. That in the show notes. Yeah. And it's going to

743
00:48:44,850 --> 00:48:48,630
be in, in town, the fundraiser and among, among the, the different things that

744
00:48:49,130 --> 00:48:52,510
have been contributed for that are, are shirts that they're, that they've. Oh,

745
00:48:53,010 --> 00:48:56,560
that's great. Printed up with these, with these little painting of the donkeys and some,

746
00:48:57,060 --> 00:49:00,760
some greeting cards too. So that's great. And I'm sure the, the people running the

747
00:49:01,260 --> 00:49:04,160
sanctuary and their supporters are so grateful to have,

748
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:07,440
to have that so they can. Well, yeah, I think

749
00:49:07,940 --> 00:49:11,520
they are. And I mean, I'm just so grateful of them and sanctuary

750
00:49:12,020 --> 00:49:15,600
people who. Yes, it's hard work that they do. It's so,

751
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:20,400
a lot of work is so important. Hard work and heartbreaking

752
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:24,600
work and important work. Yeah. And with such potential

753
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:28,120
to, you know, connect people to

754
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:30,600
farmed animals and see. I know,

755
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:35,160
yeah, it's hard. You live in New York City, right? Yeah.

756
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:39,600
So, you know, you don't have opportunity to, like a lot of

757
00:49:40,100 --> 00:49:43,320
us don't have an opportunity to visit these animals and see them up close and

758
00:49:43,820 --> 00:49:46,600
personal and see those cow's eyes and see those pig's eyes and,

759
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:50,490
and look into an eye of a turkey, you know, and it's, it is so

760
00:49:50,990 --> 00:49:53,290
important for people to visit sanctuaries and, and,

761
00:49:53,930 --> 00:49:57,130
and, and make, and have that connection when you're in areas,

762
00:49:57,370 --> 00:50:01,290
you know, where you can't do that. But social media is so good for that

763
00:50:01,790 --> 00:50:05,370
too. With the, all the sanctuaries that. Oh, and the videos

764
00:50:05,870 --> 00:50:09,610
and videos and. Really you just see what

765
00:50:10,010 --> 00:50:13,690
delightful, love loving beings they

766
00:50:14,190 --> 00:50:17,570
are. No different whatsoever than any companion animal

767
00:50:18,070 --> 00:50:22,130
you've ever known. Lots of people that, you know and, you know, it's so

768
00:50:22,630 --> 00:50:25,650
clear and it's. So. Do you ever get burned out on social media?

769
00:50:26,690 --> 00:50:30,370
Yeah, definitely. I, I mean, yes. When I

770
00:50:30,450 --> 00:50:34,530
just look and I'm not putting something out there,

771
00:50:35,030 --> 00:50:38,370
but taking it all in. Yeah, it's a

772
00:50:38,870 --> 00:50:42,810
lot like right now the trolls are out like in droves right now around the

773
00:50:43,310 --> 00:50:46,770
holidays. What do you mean? Like there's trolls that like, so in the comments

774
00:50:47,010 --> 00:50:50,510
on a lot of things on my page, they're just. Yeah,

775
00:50:51,010 --> 00:50:53,590
so the trolls are just out and they're commenting negative.

776
00:50:53,750 --> 00:50:57,270
And I think that they come out around the holidays because

777
00:50:57,350 --> 00:51:00,310
we're posting so much about, you know, turkeys and,

778
00:51:00,870 --> 00:51:03,350
and, and it's like, you know what,

779
00:51:03,990 --> 00:51:07,110
they're, they're triggered. So let them go.

780
00:51:07,190 --> 00:51:11,190
Sometimes I'll just, sometimes I'll answer them like in this real rational

781
00:51:11,590 --> 00:51:14,550
way that they kind of like just go away.

782
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:17,720
Because I just, you know, I don't argue with them. They're looking for fights.

783
00:51:18,220 --> 00:51:21,880
They're looking, they're looking to burn us out, you know, like, they're gonna comment like,

784
00:51:22,380 --> 00:51:25,280
you're an idiot or something stupid or I'm gonna go eat my meat, you know,

785
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:28,240
like, so they want us to be like, oh,

786
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:31,840
someone was mean to me, you know, and it's just like, let them go.

787
00:51:32,340 --> 00:51:35,680
Delete them off your page. Like, who cares? It's your page. Get deleted. Like,

788
00:51:36,180 --> 00:51:39,040
the fact that they're doing it means you're getting to them.

789
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:42,480
That's right. So good. That's good news. Yeah.

790
00:51:42,980 --> 00:51:45,800
What are they doing on, on my page or your page or whatever? Because they're,

791
00:51:46,300 --> 00:51:50,260
they're, they're tr. Figured they're upset about it, they're afraid, you know, so it's

792
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:54,620
like, let it go, it's fine. But I do find that high road. That's right.

793
00:51:54,940 --> 00:51:58,220
That's right. And it's like, delete them. Who cares? Like, don't let people bother you

794
00:51:58,720 --> 00:52:00,940
if they message you or something like that. I'm sure you don't have a lot

795
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:03,740
of that because you have beautiful artwork and I'm sure you don't have a lot

796
00:52:04,240 --> 00:52:07,900
of nasty people. So that's. Yeah. And I mean, I don't. Once in a while

797
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:12,060
I have had something, but it's usually if I post about someone

798
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:16,960
who somebody wants to say something bad about, like, like I'll

799
00:52:17,460 --> 00:52:20,760
just say, like, I had something about Renee

800
00:52:21,260 --> 00:52:24,520
King Sonnen once in Rowdy Girl sanctuary. Oh, yeah. You know,

801
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:28,320
she is so big. Yeah. That there are people, I guess,

802
00:52:28,820 --> 00:52:31,320
who are waiting for things to be said about them.

803
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:35,880
So. Yeah, there'll be a couple of other times, but in that context.

804
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:39,570
Yeah. Or like, or PETA or,

805
00:52:40,070 --> 00:52:43,650
or another organization. Sometimes people do stuff like that too. But. Yeah.

806
00:52:43,890 --> 00:52:47,170
That's so funny. Okay, so at the end of

807
00:52:47,250 --> 00:52:50,850
our interviews, I like to have like some rapid fire questions

808
00:52:51,350 --> 00:52:54,210
just for fun. So I like to put people on the spot a little bit

809
00:52:54,290 --> 00:52:58,130
just. And don't think, just answer. But, but anyway, they're fun. They're fun questions.

810
00:52:58,370 --> 00:53:01,650
So. First one. Ready? Yeah. Okay. This is like,

811
00:53:02,150 --> 00:53:05,890
this is like my lightning round. Okay. Favorite vegan food?

812
00:53:06,390 --> 00:53:09,450
Well, it's always vegan, but favorite food, what's your absolute favorite thing?

813
00:53:10,250 --> 00:53:13,530
It changes all the time. Like right now I'm gonna say pumpkin muffins.

814
00:53:14,030 --> 00:53:17,730
I have celiac. So like really good gluten free baked goods really

815
00:53:18,230 --> 00:53:21,770
get Me. So, yeah, pumpkin muffins. But it'll change. It'll change. So in

816
00:53:22,270 --> 00:53:25,490
the, like February, it'll be something else, but right now it's pumpkin muffins. I love

817
00:53:25,990 --> 00:53:27,610
it. What's your least favorite food?

818
00:53:29,370 --> 00:53:33,130
Well, like you, I don't think of anything with animal

819
00:53:33,630 --> 00:53:37,110
products, fruit, so I'm not going there. But I. Least favorite

820
00:53:37,610 --> 00:53:40,630
vegan food? Yeah. What do you like, hate? I don't like sp.

821
00:53:40,710 --> 00:53:43,750
Sour stuff like kimchi. Okay, so that's one. Yeah.

822
00:53:43,910 --> 00:53:47,230
I'm like mushrooms. I'm getting better. Like. Oh, you don't like mushrooms.

823
00:53:47,730 --> 00:53:51,110
I love mushrooms. Well, I'm trying. I'm trying. I'm. You know, Patrick in our

824
00:53:51,610 --> 00:53:55,070
Thanksgiving episode was like bugging me about it, but getting better. But I still can't

825
00:53:55,570 --> 00:53:57,910
do. Are you a morning person or a night owl?

826
00:53:59,030 --> 00:54:02,550
Okay, my husband would say I'm a night owl.

827
00:54:04,310 --> 00:54:08,150
I get. I get tired and I. Then I stay up through that and

828
00:54:08,650 --> 00:54:10,970
I get a second wind and I start doing things and I stay up too

829
00:54:11,470 --> 00:54:14,450
late and he just. He doesn't do that. And he. He thinks I'm a night

830
00:54:14,950 --> 00:54:18,170
owl. But the truth is that if. If I get up in the morning,

831
00:54:18,670 --> 00:54:21,370
it's always hard for me to get up. But once I'm up, I'm better in

832
00:54:21,870 --> 00:54:24,849
the morning. I'm happy to have the day ahead of me and I. Yeah.

833
00:54:24,930 --> 00:54:29,370
More productive. So I think. So you're a morning person mischaracterized

834
00:54:29,870 --> 00:54:33,650
as a night owl. Yeah, that's. Okay. There we go. Now we got

835
00:54:34,150 --> 00:54:37,490
it. Tea, coffee or tea? Tea. Tea.

836
00:54:37,990 --> 00:54:41,370
So do you like tea to wake up in the morning? Yes. Caffeinated. Okay.

837
00:54:42,410 --> 00:54:46,410
I'm a big coffee. Coffee to wake up. I used to be a coffee addict,

838
00:54:46,910 --> 00:54:50,529
but it doesn't agree with my stomach. So, yeah, it's tough. I put soy milk

839
00:54:51,029 --> 00:54:54,290
in it to help my stomach, but I love my coffee. Okay, and then the

840
00:54:54,790 --> 00:54:58,650
final question is, what is one small action people can do today

841
00:54:59,130 --> 00:55:01,920
to help animals? Okay.

842
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:06,760
Okay. So it's going to be different for someone who

843
00:55:07,260 --> 00:55:11,280
is vegan than someone who's not. Or even like someone who's someone.

844
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:14,960
Someone who's do one for each one for. Right.

845
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:18,800
Someone who's not vegan. So some. Yeah. For. For someone who's not

846
00:55:19,300 --> 00:55:22,520
vegan. I want to say watch Dominion because I

847
00:55:23,020 --> 00:55:26,570
just keep hearing people bit us the single most things. I mean, I feel

848
00:55:27,070 --> 00:55:30,650
like people who are listening to your podcast. Yeah. Who are not vegan are

849
00:55:31,150 --> 00:55:34,810
people like people who I know who kind of want to be vegan or

850
00:55:35,310 --> 00:55:38,530
want to Be closer to vegan. But they're having trouble getting there. And what.

851
00:55:39,030 --> 00:55:42,290
And they're not. And they need some help. And I'm so aware that

852
00:55:42,530 --> 00:55:46,130
watching Dominions, it seems to universally be

853
00:55:46,530 --> 00:55:49,770
said to be the thing that helps people get there. And I

854
00:55:50,270 --> 00:55:53,170
know a lot of people don't, you know, are like, why I can't watch something

855
00:55:53,670 --> 00:55:57,300
so graphic. And there are some other things that. There are a lot of

856
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:01,740
other movies that have a little bit of footage that would be helpful

857
00:56:02,240 --> 00:56:05,860
but not be quite so. Like vegetated or you're an

858
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:09,620
athlete, like Game Changers, you know, there. There are other things to

859
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:13,700
watch, too. I would say watch something. Right. With footage to see what's happening to

860
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:17,580
animals. Yeah. Keep being curious. Keep listening and watch those videos.

861
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:20,420
And then what if they. What if they already are? And if they. If they

862
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:24,620
are. I feel like it's something you alluded to before about the grocery store.

863
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:28,160
It's like. It's to. To,

864
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:32,880
like, force myself, because I can tend to not

865
00:56:33,380 --> 00:56:36,600
articulate why I'm vegan or why I'm making

866
00:56:37,100 --> 00:56:40,280
choices that I'm making to not eat something. If I'm in a social

867
00:56:40,780 --> 00:56:44,160
situation, if I'm not around all vegans, I might just do the thing.

868
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:48,280
I'll do the thing, but I won't talk about it or open the

869
00:56:48,780 --> 00:56:52,720
conversation. But I think I've realized, and I was recently hearing

870
00:56:53,220 --> 00:56:57,030
somebody talk about this, that sometimes if you. If you don't

871
00:56:57,350 --> 00:57:01,190
talk about it and if you don't open yourself up to the conversation,

872
00:57:01,510 --> 00:57:04,790
that you can start to kind of start losing your

873
00:57:05,290 --> 00:57:08,670
own grounding in why you're doing what you're doing. It's not

874
00:57:09,170 --> 00:57:12,590
that I would ever stop doing it, but feel even less and

875
00:57:13,090 --> 00:57:16,070
less confident to talk about it when it comes up.

876
00:57:16,310 --> 00:57:19,590
Yeah. So if, like, if. I think that happens to a lot of people.

877
00:57:20,090 --> 00:57:23,260
Yeah. I think because it's hard to. If you're not talking about it

878
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:26,500
all the time, if you're not. If you're not having those same conversations,

879
00:57:26,740 --> 00:57:29,820
if you're shying away from conversations too much, then you're out

880
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:34,740
of practice, I think. But, you know, like we were saying before is find.

881
00:57:35,300 --> 00:57:38,780
Find the. Find something you're already good at and use it,

882
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:42,540
you know, use those talents to speak for animals, you know, whenever you can.

883
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:46,260
Find. Find it. Find it. And, you know, write it down.

884
00:57:46,340 --> 00:57:50,010
And, you know, you're saying dominion. When I.

885
00:57:50,510 --> 00:57:53,970
I was vegetarian, and then I was, like, having vegan weeks and,

886
00:57:54,050 --> 00:57:57,330
you know, vegan days and vegan weeks and then. But it Wasn't,

887
00:57:57,830 --> 00:58:01,090
you know. Cause I think in the beginning, in the beginning of the vegan part,

888
00:58:01,810 --> 00:58:05,330
people would bake me something or they bring me something, and then I'd be like,

889
00:58:05,830 --> 00:58:08,730
oh, it's probably, well, eggs. I had an egg allergy, so I couldn't have that.

890
00:58:09,230 --> 00:58:12,730
But it probably has dairy in it. I don't want to tell them I'm

891
00:58:13,230 --> 00:58:15,180
vegan, you know? Cause it was. It was hard in the beginning.

892
00:58:16,290 --> 00:58:19,570
And now I, you know, I'm like, why was I doing that?

893
00:58:20,070 --> 00:58:23,250
But it is hard. So I recognize that. But. So what I did is I

894
00:58:23,750 --> 00:58:27,050
sat down. I don't remember if it was meet your meat or earthlings. I should

895
00:58:27,550 --> 00:58:30,650
probably look up the date of when those came out. But they probably both came

896
00:58:31,150 --> 00:58:34,770
out way, way a long time ago. But. And I made myself sit there

897
00:58:35,090 --> 00:58:38,290
and watch it until I totally broke down

898
00:58:38,790 --> 00:58:42,340
and was a mess. And then it was like, vegan after that

899
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:45,980
and just told everybody, like, all my friends, I'm like, I'm vegan now.

900
00:58:46,060 --> 00:58:50,180
And before, I couldn't do it. So maybe it was that part of watching

901
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:54,020
that and then knowing I couldn't walk away from

902
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:57,980
that. And I couldn't stop being a voice for the animals. And I. And if

903
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:01,860
that gave me that extra courage, maybe, or maybe it just solidified. And then

904
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:06,020
I threw a tattoo on me that said vegan. I did that, too. I did

905
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:09,910
that for my doctor. What? I did that, I think mostly for

906
00:59:10,410 --> 00:59:13,430
my doctor, I say, because my doctor was kind of like when I was going

907
00:59:13,930 --> 00:59:17,710
vegan, and then I. I said, I tattooed it on me, so now I'm vegan

908
00:59:18,210 --> 00:59:20,470
for life, so you can't do anything about it. But. Yeah, that was like,

909
00:59:20,970 --> 00:59:24,110
the thing. Yeah. It's like the first couple things I did, you know, I was

910
00:59:24,610 --> 00:59:27,430
like, I'm gonna watch this video, and then I'm gonna tattoo it on myself,

911
00:59:27,930 --> 00:59:31,790
and then I'm never going back, you know? Yeah. I love that

912
00:59:32,290 --> 00:59:35,430
you were like, look, I want to do this, but somehow I'm

913
00:59:35,930 --> 00:59:39,070
blocked. I can't do it. I'm going, I'm just gonna watch this.

914
00:59:39,570 --> 00:59:42,710
Yeah. And sometimes you just have to. You have to bear witness. And I think.

915
00:59:42,950 --> 00:59:46,670
I think after you're vegan, you don't have to bear witness anymore.

916
00:59:47,170 --> 00:59:50,550
After you're there, don't watch the videos. That's gonna burn you out.

917
00:59:50,790 --> 00:59:54,150
Watching all the sadness, watching all the videos. I still have people that send

918
00:59:54,650 --> 00:59:58,110
me videos, and I'm like, please don't send me videos, because I don't wanna watch

919
00:59:58,610 --> 01:00:02,120
them. I have to in my job, for horse racing wrongs watch

920
01:00:02,620 --> 01:00:05,720
really bad videos sometimes because I, before we put them out, we have to.

921
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:09,240
But I'm not, you know, if I'm on Facebook,

922
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:12,440
scrolling through, I'm not going to stop on a video

923
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:17,040
that has a cow being slaughtered or a dog being slammed

924
01:00:17,540 --> 01:00:19,960
on the ground. I'm not going to do that because that is not healthy for

925
01:00:20,460 --> 01:00:23,840
us. It doesn't serve you anymore. You're gonna do your work for

926
01:00:24,340 --> 01:00:27,330
the animals. Right. And it'll hurt my work. It'll hurt my work.

927
01:00:27,830 --> 01:00:29,970
Right? You'll be down.

928
01:00:31,250 --> 01:00:34,610
Yeah. So it's good that we're protecting ourselves, you know, from that.

929
01:00:35,110 --> 01:00:38,690
Yeah, I would do it. I would watch. If I had a friend who wasn't

930
01:00:39,190 --> 01:00:42,449
vegan willing to watch. If I watched with them, then I would watch. But yeah,

931
01:00:42,850 --> 01:00:45,970
yeah, for support. I think that's the only, I think that's a good, that's a

932
01:00:46,470 --> 01:00:49,570
good point, is to, you know, if you have the opportunity to watch a documentary

933
01:00:50,070 --> 01:00:53,320
with them, to get them there, be there for support. It's gonna

934
01:00:53,820 --> 01:00:57,120
hurt like so bad, but you're gonna get them to where they need to be

935
01:00:57,620 --> 01:01:00,600
and be there for them and pass the tissues back and forth, you know,

936
01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:04,240
and so that's great. Well, thank you

937
01:01:04,740 --> 01:01:07,720
so much for being here with me today and your kid, what's your kitty's name?

938
01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:10,520
Mrs. Mittens. Oh, Mittens, you're so cute.

939
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:14,840
Shadow as well, but he's not here. Mittens. Shadow doesn't wanna

940
01:01:15,340 --> 01:01:19,200
be on tv. But thank you so much for being here and for sharing your

941
01:01:19,700 --> 01:01:23,160
work and like I said, we'll have, we'll showcase Lisa's work on Substack and we'll

942
01:01:23,660 --> 01:01:27,220
have link that we talked about today in the show notes. And thank

943
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:30,900
you so much for being here and inspiring people to share what

944
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:34,900
they love along with their love for animals. So thank you so much.

945
01:01:35,220 --> 01:01:39,380
Thank you for asking me and thank you for everything that you and Patrick do

946
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:42,100
for the horses and for the animals. Oh, thank you.

947
01:01:48,100 --> 01:01:51,820
Hey, Nicole here from India, behalf of Animals.

948
01:01:52,060 --> 01:01:55,900
We hope you love our show as much as you love animals.

949
01:01:56,060 --> 01:01:59,460
And if you do, can you take a quick action to help amplify

950
01:01:59,960 --> 01:02:03,740
their voices? Simply follow our podcast and write us a five

951
01:02:03,820 --> 01:02:07,780
star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and wherever you

952
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:11,980
are listening right now. It helps new listeners discover the show to learn

953
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:16,270
more about how they can join our community and help in animals

954
01:02:16,770 --> 01:02:21,030
too. Thank you for listening and remember to be their voice every chance

955
01:02:21,110 --> 01:02:21,750
you get.