Activist Spotlight: Ellen Ericksen — A Lifetime of Speaking Up for Animals

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Foreign.

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Welcome back to In Behalf of Animals. I'm Nicole Arcello.

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This episode is fascinating, so very

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entertaining, and it's inspiring. I can't wait for you

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to hear my conversation today with longtime activist elder

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Ellen Erickson. From movie screenings to spontaneous

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grocery store outreach, to protests that push boundaries,

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Ellen takes every opportunity to be a voice

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for the animals every day. She is positive.

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And we have so many laughs today in this episode.

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It's good to remember we are all human and we can find good in our

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lives and laugh with one another, too. This episode also

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kicks off a series called Activist Spotlight, where we will have

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conversations with people out there on the front lines. Whether they work independently

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or with other groups, they are active in their communities.

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But be warned, many of these people do a

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lot, a real lot. So I want to stress

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here that you are not expected to do a lot.

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You are not expected to do everything Ellen does or

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I do or any past or future guest does. And I am

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instructing you not to compare yourself at

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all. But while you are listening, I also want you

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to listen to your inner dialogue. If one thing

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a guest talks about in the three or 100 things they

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talk about, if one thing resonates with you and there is one thing

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you say to yourself, hey, I can do that. Write it down.

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And if that's the only thing you are ever comfortable doing for

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animals, then do it and do it again and do

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it again. And I guarantee it will strengthen your advocacy skills.

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It will open doors and create opportunities for the animals and

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for your activism to grow and think of how many animals will

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benefit in the process. So find

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inspiration today. Maybe awe,

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maybe gratitude, and also a lot of laughs.

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But never compare or feel like you don't have what it takes to

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be a strong, dedicated voice for the animals. I know you're

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going to have so much fun listening today, and you will be inspired,

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guaranteed. So let's get to it. Here's my conversation

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with Ellen Erickson.

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Hi, Ellen. Welcome to In Behalf of Animals.

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Hi, Nicole. Thanks for having me today. I am so excited

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that you're here with me today. We were just chatting for two seconds before we

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hit record, and it's just like, you know, kindred spirits and

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just, you know, being together feels so good, doesn't it? It does.

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It really does. So you have

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been a powerful voice for the animals for so many years,

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a real relentless activist. I think that's a perfect way to describe

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you before all the organizing and the protests and the activism.

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Let's just start at the beginning. Ish with your vegan story.

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Tell us how you became vegan or how

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you got into. You start where you want to start today.

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Well, I started at a very early age.

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Some people have a hard time believing the story,

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but it's 100% true. So I grew up in New York City.

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I grew up in the Bronx. And when I

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was about four years old, my mother took us. Well,

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took me to Madison Square Garden to see

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the Ringling Brothers Circus. Oh, wow. And I was

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probably close to four. Four years old.

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And I have a lot of memories from that day because

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I had a lot of trauma that day. And then before my mom passed

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away a few years ago, we revisited that day,

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and, you know, it was pretty accurate in my

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memories. So we go to the circus, and we're sitting in

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this big arena, and, you know,

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we're watching the show, and then the elephants came out.

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And I was, like, mortified, you know,

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watching it. And I was thinking, I'm supposed to be having a good time right

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now. But I. I didn't feel right.

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Right. So we. We finished watching the circus,

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and then we got to go backstage, and it

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was really weird back there because all the creepy clowns were back there and

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a lot of the animals, but the elephants were

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back there, and they were shackled to a

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concrete wall. Wherever we

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were, I don't know if we were under or, you know, just backstage.

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And I remember seeing the elephants, and they were pretty

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close, actually, even though I know they couldn't,

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you know, break free because they couldn't break free of

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their shackles. And for some reason, I had a

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weird connection with a female elephant. And I

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just remember looking at her, and she was just staring at

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me. It's like we couldn't take our eyes off of each other.

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And then I had a breakdown.

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I was really upset. I started crying. My mom

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was asking me, what's wrong? And I remember telling her that the elephant

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was suffering. And she says, no, the elephant's

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fine. And I said, no, she's in a lot of pain. And anyway,

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my. My mood just progressed to. I was

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screaming. You know, the security people came up.

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They told my mom to shut me up, and she says, I can't.

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And, you know, I couldn't even budge. I was just focused

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on this elephant. Yeah. And so then the New

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York Police Department showed up, and two officers came

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in. And I remember they were talking to my mom, and I was still out

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of control, screaming and crying. And he also

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asked my mom to calm me down. She said, I can't

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so he proceeded to pick me up and throw me over his shoulder,

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and we literally got kicked to the curb.

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So I tell everyone that was my very first disruption with the

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animals. Yeah. Oh, my goodness,

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it was crazy. It gives me chills because children really do

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see the truth, and they do. And I totally believe that story. Children know.

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They know. You can see it in their eyes. Oh, yeah, they feel.

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They feel that. Yeah. And then, you know, while my mom

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was sick before she died, like I said a few years ago,

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we revisited a lot of stuff from my childhood,

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and that was one incident that we talked in depth about.

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So, you know, that started it. Although, you know,

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I always knew I was. Had a great sense of

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empathy, not just for animals, but for humans

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also that were

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abused, neglected. I always could tell

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if something was not right with someone and.

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And that just stayed with me my whole life. I didn't even know what it

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was initially until I got older.

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So we never went back to the circus,

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thank goodness. And, you know, my life just started

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progressing. And then we evolved

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into. Or I evolved into things that happened around

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mealtime in my house. I had a strict father,

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New York City. He worked very hard.

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He actually scared me a little bit,

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but I never backed down to him. So mealtimes

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were always traumatic. My mom would serve us animal products

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that made me just sick and nauseous to smell them. And this was

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also at an early age. And I can remember, you know,

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my mom serving me breakfast, like soft boiled eggs and milk,

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and like, I'd almost vomit from the smell.

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Right. And so I. I never ate

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it. Like, I would figure out how to get rid of my food without

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getting fought. Right. And so as soon as my mom would leave the kitchen,

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I dumped the milk down the sink. I'd, you know, have a napkin in my

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lap and scrape everything in my lap. Right. And I

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can remember her talking to me, you know, as I got a little bit older,

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telling me, you know, you have to drink milk. It's good for you.

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And I remember telling her, I can't drink it because it would

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just make me gag the smell of it. Right. And did you have siblings?

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You have siblings, too? I have a younger sister and she is

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also a vegan, of course. And I'll

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lead up to why she doesn't protest because she has some trauma from

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something I took her to when we were teenagers. But anyway,

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you know, my connection with the animals, with food

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was very early also. So I

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have a lot of food trauma. And, you know, I did have some

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eating disorders, you know, When I got a little bit

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older as a teenager, related to food.

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Right. And, you know, it's real.

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And sometimes I'll post something online about something that pops

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in my head and, you know, I'll number a Food Trauma 925.

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I mean, I have so many stories around food.

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So I think the. The evolution of my activism

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and, you know, food started,

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you know, probably around the age of 2 or 3

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until I could figure out how to dispose of it.

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And it was hard. I was really torn. I mean,

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we had a lot of arguments as a teenager at

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the dinner table because I refused to eat what was served. And then

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I got my sister in trouble, telling her not to eat it also.

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Oh,

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you were outspoken from the get go. Oh, yeah,

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it was, you know, and my dad would be,

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you know, yelling, and I would just tell him, I'm not eating it,

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you know. Right. And all I kept thinking, what is the worst thing he could

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do to me is kill me? And I knew he wasn't going to do that.

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Right. So, you know, he died early.

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Yeah. I was a teenager when he passed. And,

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you know, my sister started

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her journey very young also with food. Reading a book by Albert

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Schweitzer. Yeah. So she.

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She got it very early also. Yeah.

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And, you know, like I said, like in

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my early teens, I remember I snuck

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out of the house and coaxed my sister to come with me.

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And I don't even know why we did that. We ended

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up at protest where we lived. And it

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was crazy because the police came and it was

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very disruptive. We were tear gassed. There were police chasing

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us on horses. This was an animal, an animal protest.

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It was a more of a civil rights war protest.

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Oh, okay. Yeah. I was like, wait a minute, what kind of protest?

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I know, but the Hell's Angels were there too, so I never quite could

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figure that out. And I remember, you know, just telling

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her, you know, run, because if we get arrested,

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dad's gonna murder us for sure. Right.

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So we were running, we were, you know, tear gassed,

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and we did get out without getting arrested.

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And I was probably 14.

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Right. And so that started the

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event of protesting for me. Yeah. Did you. Did you

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get that? Like, the protesting bug? Like you're like, this is my life

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now. Oh, yeah. It started with the elephant, actually.

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Um, I've always been very outspoken.

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And, you know, when I got to be a teenager and I decided

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to become more actively involved with protesting and disruptions,

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whether it be human or animal rights,

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I had to make a decision not to have Fear. Right.

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And, and that, that's my drive.

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I have no fear. I'm 4 foot 11.

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I'm taller than you. Wait a minute.

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Really short. And I'm

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five foot, like barely, Barely taller than me.

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I'm not taller than many people. Yeah, that's, that's.

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We got different, different sides of the country. One of these days we have to

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get together. Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah. Thank goodness I'm not losing

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any height. That's a good thing. That's good. Yes. Yeah. I'm sorry.

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But no. Back to no fear. And I think, I think that.

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Yeah. How do you, how do you, how do you manifest

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that? How do you. Is it because you're speaking for the animals?

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Is that, that's how I try to get rid of, you know,

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that's, that's. The bottom line for me. And I think a lot of people are

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afraid. Yeah. And, you know, people are even afraid to come

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to like a SeaWorld protest. And yes, some of my

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protests are, you know, I have to rate them on,

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you know, high risk, medium risk, low risk,

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because, you know, I understand that a lot of people are not comfortable

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protesting. Right. And, you know, and I would never guilt someone into

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coming to a protest, but I always have to let them know ahead

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of time that if it's a riskier Protestant,

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like at the racetrack, those are more high risk protests

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because I have my protests on the property.

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So we, we have to interface with the people coming to the

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track. Right. And this is Del Mar for people. Del Mar Racetrack, California.

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Yeah. So it's one of the most elite tracks

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in the country. It's very celebrity driven. It's in a very

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wealthy area in San Diego and Del Mar.

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And, you know, they say they have a lot of prestige.

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And so when we go to these protests,

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people don't like us there. And, you know, we're right in our,

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in our faces. So at the protest, you know, I tell people

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they're moderate risk if they behave.

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So, you know, I have protesters there. I usually do the leafletting

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and I'll talk to the people coming in. Like, I can grab

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them for like 20 seconds and give them a whole rundown about how cruel

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horse racing is. Right, right. And some people accept it,

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some people are angry. It's.

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It's a weird, weird thing. We're there to ruin their day and

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they don't like. Exactly. That's our job. We want them to remember to, to know

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00:16:08,850 --> 00:16:12,550
that this is cruelty, this is not right. They shouldn't be supporting. And that

240
00:16:13,050 --> 00:16:16,660
makes them upset. Right. Yeah. So I've had some good stories,

241
00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,420
though, that have come out of being at that racetrack. And I've been out there

242
00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:24,780
for many, many years. When they're here racing,

243
00:16:25,180 --> 00:16:28,780
I'm there every weekend. I never miss. I don't even take

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00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:32,740
a vacation in the summer because of the track. But years ago,

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00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,740
I met a family there, and they came up, husband and wife

246
00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,140
and their two young kids, and I believe his mother.

247
00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:44,800
And, you know, the woman came up to me and

248
00:16:45,300 --> 00:16:49,520
she said, hey, why are you guys protesting here? So I gave her the

249
00:16:50,020 --> 00:16:54,160
rundown about horse racing, and she started crying, and she looked

250
00:16:54,660 --> 00:16:57,880
at her husband and she said, I'm not going in.

251
00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,960
That's great. I think we need to leave. And then he got very

252
00:17:02,460 --> 00:17:05,560
angry and was yelling at me

253
00:17:06,110 --> 00:17:10,190
for ruining their family day. Too bad. And, yeah, that's pretty

254
00:17:10,690 --> 00:17:13,870
much what I said. I said, there's other things you could be doing today besides.

255
00:17:14,370 --> 00:17:17,830
Especially in California, right? Yeah. Taking your kids to

256
00:17:18,330 --> 00:17:21,430
the racetrack, which I have issues with. And, you know,

257
00:17:21,930 --> 00:17:25,070
I've talked to our political people also that bringing underage

258
00:17:25,230 --> 00:17:28,990
children to a place of gambling, where there's drugs,

259
00:17:29,490 --> 00:17:32,660
alcohol, and other things that happen there to

260
00:17:32,820 --> 00:17:36,580
not be allowed. Anyway, he had a fit. She was

261
00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:40,100
crying. The kids were young. They didn't know what was going on.

262
00:17:40,980 --> 00:17:44,340
And, you know, I gave her one of my cards and asked her

263
00:17:44,500 --> 00:17:48,179
to call me. Yeah. And they did go into

264
00:17:48,679 --> 00:17:51,460
the track. Anyway, she called me later in the day,

265
00:17:51,780 --> 00:17:55,300
and, you know, she said, I'm really sorry. We went in.

266
00:17:55,620 --> 00:17:59,220
Yeah. And to make a long story short, I met her and her

267
00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,660
family the next day for lunch. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah,

268
00:18:03,700 --> 00:18:06,900
I know. I have some pictures of it. People actually thought we were related

269
00:18:07,060 --> 00:18:09,700
because we look alike. And she brought the kids,

270
00:18:10,020 --> 00:18:13,660
and her husband came and she came, and we went to a

271
00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:18,140
vegan restaurant. Awesome. And, you know, we were

272
00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:22,900
there about three hours for lunch. And he did apologize,

273
00:18:24,340 --> 00:18:27,940
because I believe a horse did die at the track that

274
00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:31,960
day. And I had a lovely lunch with them.

275
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:36,040
They promised me they would never, ever go to anything

276
00:18:36,540 --> 00:18:40,000
that involved animals for the rest of their lives. I had

277
00:18:40,500 --> 00:18:43,240
great conversation with their children. I brought them information.

278
00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:47,920
So, you know, there's been positive outcomes from

279
00:18:48,420 --> 00:18:52,680
going. They're not all negative. And it

280
00:18:53,180 --> 00:18:56,760
happens a lot when we're at the track. People actually leave. They don't even go

281
00:18:57,260 --> 00:19:01,100
in once they hear the truth. So tell

282
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,660
me about your. Your experience about. With sea. SeaWorld.

283
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:08,420
Just since we're talking about protesting at this moment, we're just. Yeah.

284
00:19:08,740 --> 00:19:12,500
Like what. What are. What's your experience there and what's happening and families

285
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,740
going in there. Yeah. Well, SeaWorld, I've been protesting for a really

286
00:19:16,820 --> 00:19:19,980
long time. Like the racetrack, it's very close

287
00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:24,420
to my house. So, you know, I used to have,

288
00:19:24,660 --> 00:19:27,040
like, two or three protests a month.

289
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:31,560
Right. And over the years, and I had some really giant protests

290
00:19:32,060 --> 00:19:34,720
out there where hundreds of people would come to protest.

291
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,240
Yeah. And when Blackfish came out, I had a big

292
00:19:38,740 --> 00:19:42,560
protest that day. And some of the people that were in Blackfish,

293
00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:46,200
you know, came to the protest. I had media with me all

294
00:19:46,700 --> 00:19:50,560
day, and then I think there were a thousand people at that protest.

295
00:19:51,310 --> 00:19:54,590
It was huge. And then we all

296
00:19:55,090 --> 00:19:58,750
went to watch Blackfish together, and I had a news crew with me the whole

297
00:19:59,250 --> 00:20:02,350
time. So we had some great news coverage there.

298
00:20:03,390 --> 00:20:06,990
SeaWorld is still in business. They shouldn't be in business.

299
00:20:08,110 --> 00:20:11,350
They're on lease land from the city of San Diego.

300
00:20:11,850 --> 00:20:15,550
They have not paid their rent in years.

301
00:20:16,050 --> 00:20:19,090
So the. They owe the city of San Diego millions

302
00:20:19,590 --> 00:20:23,130
of dollars, and they're still allowed to operate. But the bottom

303
00:20:23,630 --> 00:20:26,970
line for me with SeaWorld is the animals

304
00:20:27,470 --> 00:20:31,010
have a horrible life there. And I still continue

305
00:20:31,490 --> 00:20:34,530
to organize protests there. It's very important.

306
00:20:35,570 --> 00:20:38,530
SeaWorld's attendance rate has dropped.

307
00:20:39,330 --> 00:20:41,810
Their yearly pass members have dropped.

308
00:20:42,380 --> 00:20:46,860
And I know they're directly related to the protests

309
00:20:47,340 --> 00:20:50,620
because, you know, they've seen the truth.

310
00:20:51,020 --> 00:20:54,780
I've done a lot of news coverage here, but,

311
00:20:54,860 --> 00:20:58,620
you know, there's so many other things, you know, that you can

312
00:20:59,260 --> 00:21:03,260
do, like when there's OSHA gets involved,

313
00:21:03,500 --> 00:21:07,460
and when the Coastal commissioners in

314
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:11,640
San Diego were meeting years ago, you know, I try to go to

315
00:21:12,140 --> 00:21:15,000
these meetings so I can go on record.

316
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,880
Right. And as you know, that's very important that

317
00:21:19,380 --> 00:21:23,240
we go on record like I do with the California Horse Racing

318
00:21:23,740 --> 00:21:26,199
Board, which is a joke, by the way. Right.

319
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,800
SeaWorld. I've had issues with them

320
00:21:30,300 --> 00:21:34,000
legally over the years because I was assaulted there by

321
00:21:34,500 --> 00:21:38,200
an employee. Not even during a protest. I had gone to do

322
00:21:38,700 --> 00:21:41,940
a media story because they got

323
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:45,860
in trouble with OSHA years ago, and they announced on the news that

324
00:21:46,360 --> 00:21:48,860
I would be coming. So they were expecting me.

325
00:21:50,460 --> 00:21:54,300
You know, I wasn't. I probably should have gone to the emergency room,

326
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,620
but I couldn't go because I was rescuing two pigs that afternoon. So a

327
00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:03,100
little press for time, but I ended up

328
00:22:03,420 --> 00:22:06,300
going to court and suing them. And,

329
00:22:07,900 --> 00:22:11,340
you know, of course, I had a great outcome, and the San Diego

330
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:13,980
Police Department were my witness.

331
00:22:15,020 --> 00:22:18,660
Wow. Yeah. So, you know, I have

332
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,780
a. I think I have a permanent restraining order from Them. I received

333
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:27,100
a letter from them years ago from their attorneys in Orlando

334
00:22:27,900 --> 00:22:31,060
accusing me of being a terrorist and that I

335
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:35,810
had affiliations with other terrorist organizations and

336
00:22:36,310 --> 00:22:39,730
that if I ever stepped foot on their property, they would take me down.

337
00:22:40,610 --> 00:22:44,770
So we protest outside SeaWorld actually is a

338
00:22:45,090 --> 00:22:48,970
low risk protest because we don't

339
00:22:49,470 --> 00:22:51,970
have interactions with people or on the street.

340
00:22:52,370 --> 00:22:55,730
Everyone that drives into SeaWorld has to see

341
00:22:56,230 --> 00:22:59,330
us. And it's great.

342
00:22:59,810 --> 00:23:03,570
I mean, I could probably talk about what's going on on SeaWorld for four days

343
00:23:04,070 --> 00:23:07,850
with you, but their attendance is down

344
00:23:08,350 --> 00:23:12,050
and people are becoming more aware that the animals

345
00:23:12,550 --> 00:23:16,490
there do suffer and that SeaWorld is a corrupt company.

346
00:23:16,990 --> 00:23:20,770
And I have no problem saying that on

347
00:23:21,270 --> 00:23:25,050
the air because it's true. Right. So I'm planning

348
00:23:25,550 --> 00:23:29,130
on a protest in December at SeaWorld for one of their orcas,

349
00:23:29,630 --> 00:23:32,970
Corky, who has been locked up as a slave for

350
00:23:33,130 --> 00:23:36,090
58 years, I believe now. So heartbreaking.

351
00:23:36,710 --> 00:23:40,550
It's terrible what goes on there. They're probably one of the most smartest

352
00:23:41,910 --> 00:23:44,950
of the species in the world. Oh,

353
00:23:45,450 --> 00:23:48,670
yeah. And they're just tortured every day for 50. How many

354
00:23:49,170 --> 00:23:53,338
years did you say? 50? Over 50. I think it's 58 years on December

355
00:23:53,442 --> 00:23:56,230
11th when she was captured. Yeah.

356
00:23:56,710 --> 00:23:58,550
So several years ago,

357
00:23:59,750 --> 00:24:03,680
SeaWorld decided they. They had this big idea,

358
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,200
even though I know it was a joke, they wanted to build

359
00:24:07,700 --> 00:24:11,760
a larger tank. So they went on the media here stating,

360
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:16,000
we care so much about our orcas, we want to build them a larger

361
00:24:16,500 --> 00:24:19,520
tank. So, you know, I did a news story with them and I said,

362
00:24:20,020 --> 00:24:23,680
that's a lie. You know, they want to get more

363
00:24:24,180 --> 00:24:27,200
orcas. I already know what their plan is.

364
00:24:28,260 --> 00:24:32,060
Anyway, that's where the California Coastal Commissioners came in

365
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,060
because they have to approve it. We went to a big meeting in Long

366
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:40,180
Beach, California, which is about two hours from here. And SeaWorld

367
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:44,100
had busted about 150 of their supporters,

368
00:24:44,660 --> 00:24:49,060
put them in T shirts supporting SeaWorld.

369
00:24:49,380 --> 00:24:52,420
It was a long day. It was about an 11 hour meeting.

370
00:24:53,300 --> 00:24:56,930
And you know, the condition.

371
00:24:57,410 --> 00:25:01,770
They decided at the end the condition to get the new tank would

372
00:25:02,270 --> 00:25:05,730
be they could not obtain any more orcas

373
00:25:06,370 --> 00:25:09,730
or have any pregnant orcas at SeaWorld.

374
00:25:10,230 --> 00:25:14,210
Which means, you know, not taking any genetic material

375
00:25:14,290 --> 00:25:16,850
from the one orca that they used, Tilikom,

376
00:25:17,330 --> 00:25:22,060
because he was a big sperm bank. Right. And they

377
00:25:22,140 --> 00:25:25,620
said, you know, we agreed to that. And then the

378
00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:29,100
next day I met the media here and we did a big interview at SeaWorld.

379
00:25:29,420 --> 00:25:32,900
And I told them, because they were at the

380
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:38,220
meeting also, that it was not true about

381
00:25:38,700 --> 00:25:42,540
building a larger tank for the existing orcas and

382
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:47,710
that indeed they were looking at orcas that were being captivated

383
00:25:47,940 --> 00:25:51,460
captive in Russia. So I already knew about

384
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,940
the orcas there. Anyway, to make a long story short,

385
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,140
a new tank did not get in because they couldn't get

386
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,340
any more orcas. So the orcas that are there, there's eight

387
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:09,140
left here now live in very small tanks exposed

388
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,580
to the elements. They're not well, they're medicated,

389
00:26:13,470 --> 00:26:17,350
and they have mental illness from being confined for

390
00:26:17,850 --> 00:26:21,230
so long. Yeah, it is terrible. It's terrible. Any. Anyone who's

391
00:26:21,730 --> 00:26:25,950
listening who has not seen blackfish go,

392
00:26:26,450 --> 00:26:29,830
go watch it. You just got a, a really good snapshot

393
00:26:30,330 --> 00:26:33,550
of, of what's going on there from what Ellen is saying. But, you know,

394
00:26:34,050 --> 00:26:36,750
go, but see more and try to get more people to.

395
00:26:37,630 --> 00:26:40,910
I, I'll see. Now we're in new upstate New York and

396
00:26:41,410 --> 00:26:44,770
sometimes I will see school organizations

397
00:26:45,270 --> 00:26:48,890
raffling off like SeaWorld tickets, you know, and we write

398
00:26:49,390 --> 00:26:51,570
into them and say, what are you doing? This is, you know, oh yeah,

399
00:26:51,650 --> 00:26:55,170
this is cruelty. And so we're talking about

400
00:26:55,670 --> 00:26:59,050
protest. There's so many things I have, like, so many questions for you that aren't

401
00:26:59,550 --> 00:27:03,770
written down that are in my head. But, but you are like a

402
00:27:04,270 --> 00:27:08,090
walking, talking book on all forms of activism. So we

403
00:27:08,590 --> 00:27:12,160
were talking about that a little bit before we, before we started we hit

404
00:27:12,660 --> 00:27:16,080
record and your life is.

405
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,320
Is activism for animals. And I'm sure you do

406
00:27:19,820 --> 00:27:23,280
activism for humans too early that we don't care about humans. We can get to

407
00:27:23,780 --> 00:27:26,320
that. But. Oh yeah, and we were talking a little bit about the shirt you're

408
00:27:26,820 --> 00:27:30,360
wearing today. Bottle. And you know, and you can

409
00:27:30,860 --> 00:27:34,880
tell us what, what is on there because no, we can't see you, but I

410
00:27:35,380 --> 00:27:38,500
can see you, but. Yeah. So what is like a typical. Do you want to

411
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,580
like, walk us through like a typical day or, you know,

412
00:27:42,660 --> 00:27:45,140
when you get up in the morning, you're going to go somewhere.

413
00:27:46,740 --> 00:27:49,220
What do you, what do you, what do you do? How do you prepare?

414
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,860
You know, you're. I know you're always ready. Yeah. My car is loaded

415
00:27:54,340 --> 00:27:57,620
up for any joy. You got a message mobile.

416
00:27:57,780 --> 00:28:01,700
Yeah, I have my megaphone next to me and my friend seat,

417
00:28:02,900 --> 00:28:06,960
you know, for, for anything. Although I have an extremely big mouth.

418
00:28:07,460 --> 00:28:10,640
I don't even need it. I do work full time. I work

419
00:28:11,140 --> 00:28:15,000
in healthcare and I have a great boss

420
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,080
who supports me and

421
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,040
so I do work. But the weekends,

422
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:28,240
I mean, it's just part of my everyday life. When I go grocery

423
00:28:28,740 --> 00:28:31,960
shopping, I wear this T shirt that Says eating animals is weird.

424
00:28:32,510 --> 00:28:36,030
Everyone's. Yeah, yeah. Like, I have great

425
00:28:36,530 --> 00:28:40,630
conversations in the store. I always have leaflets

426
00:28:41,130 --> 00:28:44,830
on me. So if anyone wants information or I give them one of my cards

427
00:28:45,390 --> 00:28:48,950
and, you know, people can reach out to me. I've had some

428
00:28:49,450 --> 00:28:52,430
really interesting encounters at grocery stores with people.

429
00:28:53,870 --> 00:28:57,310
I met these two women a few years ago at Trader Joe's

430
00:28:57,810 --> 00:29:01,340
here and they, they were really

431
00:29:01,980 --> 00:29:05,580
an interesting. I think they were cousins.

432
00:29:06,220 --> 00:29:10,100
So they were shopping and one of the women reached

433
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,900
to go get butter. And so I said to her, I said,

434
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,820
don't, don't pick that up. So she dropped it. It was a bomb.

435
00:29:18,220 --> 00:29:21,260
And she goes, she goes, what?

436
00:29:21,500 --> 00:29:25,030
And I said, you don't want to eat that. And you

437
00:29:25,530 --> 00:29:28,230
know, and then she started recording.

438
00:29:28,710 --> 00:29:31,430
So all of this is recorded somewhere.

439
00:29:31,990 --> 00:29:35,350
I can send you a copy of it. Yeah. But her cousin was

440
00:29:35,850 --> 00:29:40,110
telling me that, you know, she's trying to eat healthy and

441
00:29:40,610 --> 00:29:43,630
because she had some health issues and,

442
00:29:44,130 --> 00:29:47,070
you know, I looked at what was in her cart and I said, you know,

443
00:29:47,570 --> 00:29:51,590
what's in your cart is not healthy? And she, and she thought it was,

444
00:29:52,290 --> 00:29:55,810
you know, she had like turkey bacon and. Right.

445
00:29:55,970 --> 00:29:59,250
You know, animal products. What they tell you is healthy, right?

446
00:29:59,570 --> 00:30:03,090
Yeah. So I said, dump all that

447
00:30:03,590 --> 00:30:07,490
stuff. Let's go shopping and I'll shop with you. So I

448
00:30:07,990 --> 00:30:11,570
spent about 45 minutes with them at Trader Joe's and

449
00:30:11,730 --> 00:30:15,330
we shopped and, you know, it was a great experience

450
00:30:15,810 --> 00:30:18,560
for me and for them and,

451
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,680
you know, depending on my mood, like,

452
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,840
if I have a little bit more time to kill at the grocery store,

453
00:30:26,340 --> 00:30:29,880
I'll just hang out in the dairy department and. Yeah,

454
00:30:30,380 --> 00:30:34,240
I'll just hang out in the dairy department and like, someone will go to grab,

455
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,800
you know, cow's milk. And I'm like, wait.

456
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,320
I said, don't buy that. I said, it's really bad for you.

457
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,480
And I said, let me show you some better options. And they're like.

458
00:30:45,290 --> 00:30:48,410
And they're so flab. Flabbergast that they're like, okay.

459
00:30:49,050 --> 00:30:51,770
They don't know what to do. Right. I don't even know what to say.

460
00:30:52,170 --> 00:30:55,530
That's good. Yeah. So you render them speechless

461
00:30:56,030 --> 00:30:58,890
and then just go from there. Right. You know, and then I'll show them.

462
00:30:59,390 --> 00:31:02,730
I'm like, look at all these plant based, you know, options for

463
00:31:03,130 --> 00:31:06,850
non dairy. Right. That is healthier for you. And no animal

464
00:31:07,350 --> 00:31:10,810
has to suffer and die. And, you know, and,

465
00:31:11,170 --> 00:31:13,690
you know, a lot of them will ask me what I prefer and I just

466
00:31:14,190 --> 00:31:17,330
tell them, buy a couple different kinds and see which one you and Your

467
00:31:17,830 --> 00:31:21,730
family. Like some of the other things that I do are. Which are

468
00:31:22,230 --> 00:31:25,970
a little bit edgier. And I usually do this

469
00:31:26,470 --> 00:31:30,170
around Thanksgiving. I'll go shopping and I'll find out

470
00:31:30,670 --> 00:31:32,770
where the store's PA system is,

471
00:31:33,970 --> 00:31:38,290
and, you know, people will be shopping and

472
00:31:39,890 --> 00:31:43,450
I'll sneak into the area where it is. So the first

473
00:31:43,950 --> 00:31:47,490
time I did this years ago, I was with my nephew. It was at Thanksgiving.

474
00:31:47,990 --> 00:31:50,810
And we went to. We were in a huge grocery store to pick something up

475
00:31:51,310 --> 00:31:54,450
for my sister. And we were going through the checkout line and

476
00:31:54,850 --> 00:31:57,690
the checker, the cashier guy, and I said,

477
00:31:58,190 --> 00:32:01,090
hey, I want to make an announcement in the store.

478
00:32:01,330 --> 00:32:03,970
How can I do that? And he goes, I don't think you're allowed to do

479
00:32:04,470 --> 00:32:07,840
that. And I said, yeah, just show me how to use the intercom

480
00:32:08,340 --> 00:32:11,200
and I'll go to another register. And he goes,

481
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,560
okay. So my nephew started

482
00:32:15,060 --> 00:32:18,720
recording. He's like, what the hell are you doing? So I

483
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:23,200
went to another register and I got on the store loudspeaker

484
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,080
and made an announcement about turkeys.

485
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,440
About how many turkeys are killed for the holiday.

486
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,110
How they're born, raised, and slave slaughtered.

487
00:32:33,830 --> 00:32:35,030
That there's healthier,

488
00:32:36,870 --> 00:32:40,950
better options for food than eating a dead animal.

489
00:32:41,350 --> 00:32:44,470
Anyway, I never have anything prepared to say.

490
00:32:44,630 --> 00:32:47,350
So whatever falls out of my mouth, there you go.

491
00:32:49,510 --> 00:32:52,990
Like, the two managers come running up and I was

492
00:32:53,490 --> 00:32:57,070
already done. And they said. They said, you can't do

493
00:32:57,570 --> 00:33:00,310
that. And I said, well, I already did it. And they're like,

494
00:33:00,830 --> 00:33:03,550
too late. They're like, well, we're going to call the police.

495
00:33:03,630 --> 00:33:07,550
And I said, okay, right? That doesn't scare me,

496
00:33:07,630 --> 00:33:11,110
Right. And I said, you know, what are they going to do?

497
00:33:11,610 --> 00:33:15,310
Arrest me for telling the truth? Right. And they just walked away.

498
00:33:15,950 --> 00:33:19,070
So that video is on one of my social media.

499
00:33:20,350 --> 00:33:23,790
I think my nephew posted it to YouTube. But I continue

500
00:33:23,870 --> 00:33:26,880
to do that, and I do it alone. You know,

501
00:33:27,380 --> 00:33:31,200
I don't care. Like, we have a local grocery store here, and I can sneak

502
00:33:31,700 --> 00:33:35,200
into one of their departments and get on the floor with the PA system

503
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,800
and make an announcement. And then it takes them a while

504
00:33:39,300 --> 00:33:43,440
to figure out where I. Where I am, but it's

505
00:33:43,940 --> 00:33:47,480
pretty quick and effective and efficient. I love that. By the

506
00:33:47,980 --> 00:33:51,560
time they think they have found me, I'm done. But everyone in the

507
00:33:52,060 --> 00:33:54,380
store hears the message. They heard it, right? Yeah.

508
00:33:55,180 --> 00:33:58,220
So then they're going to talk about that. You know, if you're in the grocery

509
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,500
store, think about it, right? And someone says that, they're going to say, oh,

510
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,660
I was at the store. And someone was saying, you know, so they're going to

511
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,740
talk about that and think about that. That's, like a rare occurrence that that happens.

512
00:34:09,820 --> 00:34:12,780
Right. So I think that's a great way to plant seeds.

513
00:34:13,500 --> 00:34:17,820
Yeah. A couple years ago, I was at my sister's Thanksgiving

514
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,229
again, like, the day before. We.

515
00:34:21,389 --> 00:34:25,389
She says, I'm going to go into the store. We were at Sprouts,

516
00:34:25,629 --> 00:34:28,949
which is a local, you know, more of a health food

517
00:34:29,449 --> 00:34:33,149
store, although they do sell animals. And so we pulled up,

518
00:34:33,649 --> 00:34:36,269
and she goes, just wait in the car. Don't come in. I'll be right out.

519
00:34:36,749 --> 00:34:40,469
And I said, okay. So she goes in the store.

520
00:34:40,969 --> 00:34:43,869
And I'm like, well, I'm not going to wait in the car. So I go

521
00:34:44,369 --> 00:34:47,860
into the store. You know, I'm walking around. Everyone's, you know,

522
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,460
got a lot of turkeys in their carts.

523
00:34:51,780 --> 00:34:55,140
And I ended up in the vitamin

524
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:59,860
department, and there was a young girl working there. And I said, hey. I said,

525
00:35:00,100 --> 00:35:02,820
you know, can you leave for about two minutes?

526
00:35:03,379 --> 00:35:07,020
And she goes, why? And I said, because I'm going to do something. And she

527
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,860
goes, is it something bad? And I said, no, I just don't want you

528
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,260
to get in trouble. So she left the area,

529
00:35:14,870 --> 00:35:18,710
and I once again got on the store's PA system

530
00:35:19,350 --> 00:35:24,190
and made an announcement about turkeys. Wow. And it

531
00:35:24,690 --> 00:35:27,870
was quick. And then my sister walked

532
00:35:28,370 --> 00:35:31,069
by and I was done. And she goes, oh, my God. I was in the

533
00:35:31,569 --> 00:35:33,030
bathroom and I heard your voice.

534
00:35:35,030 --> 00:35:37,710
She goes, you know, I thought I told you to wait in the car.

535
00:35:38,210 --> 00:35:41,040
And I said, yeah, I can't do that. So,

536
00:35:42,240 --> 00:35:45,480
you know, people ask about my activism.

537
00:35:45,980 --> 00:35:49,680
There's, like, different levels because there's a. Lot of different things

538
00:35:50,180 --> 00:35:53,360
you do. Yeah. So, you know, I'm an activist

539
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:57,200
for all. I'm very active in my neighborhood

540
00:35:57,700 --> 00:36:00,920
where I live with the unhoused. You know,

541
00:36:01,420 --> 00:36:05,040
I feed and clothe them when I'm not doing other

542
00:36:05,540 --> 00:36:09,190
stuff. And I like to lecture. I've lectured at

543
00:36:09,690 --> 00:36:12,790
universities and high schools and middle schools here,

544
00:36:13,670 --> 00:36:17,590
and I really enjoy speaking to

545
00:36:18,090 --> 00:36:20,710
young people to encourage them to make a change.

546
00:36:21,510 --> 00:36:24,710
And then my activism has different levels also.

547
00:36:26,310 --> 00:36:29,510
I'm mostly a disruptor, but, you know,

548
00:36:30,010 --> 00:36:33,560
I've had to learn over the years that, you know, it all depends

549
00:36:34,060 --> 00:36:37,600
where I'm at. Right. On, you know, how I approach people.

550
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,280
And I do do a lot of media here,

551
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,000
so I do have to be professional also.

552
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,680
Right. And, you know, I. I do work.

553
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,720
And, you know, a lot of times on Mondays, you know, people will come

554
00:36:52,220 --> 00:36:55,800
in into the office and you know, they're so excited

555
00:36:56,300 --> 00:36:59,600
because they've seen me on the news. Right. I was going to ask you about

556
00:37:00,100 --> 00:37:03,920
work and yeah, them seeing you on the news, but also, you know,

557
00:37:04,420 --> 00:37:07,480
activism at work, you know, are you able to do some.

558
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:11,000
Yeah. So when I interviewed with my boss years ago,

559
00:37:11,500 --> 00:37:15,120
I had to be totally transparent with her. You know, I told her as

560
00:37:15,620 --> 00:37:19,600
an animal rights activist and I do a lot of media and

561
00:37:20,100 --> 00:37:23,960
I'm very busy here and in Los Angeles and

562
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:27,460
that, you know, if there was any

563
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:31,940
issue with that, you know, it probably wasn't going to work. But I reassured

564
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,540
her that I'm professional at work and know

565
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,980
my boundaries and however,

566
00:37:39,460 --> 00:37:43,540
if a patient asks her about something

567
00:37:43,700 --> 00:37:46,820
diet related or anything, she sends them to me.

568
00:37:47,220 --> 00:37:51,060
I am certified in plant based nutrition, so I feel

569
00:37:51,380 --> 00:37:54,620
confident into speaking. Right. You know, to a lot

570
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:57,920
of people about their diet and nutrition. Right.

571
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:02,320
But you know, there's, there's an opportunity every day

572
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:07,080
where you can be a voice for the animals no

573
00:38:07,580 --> 00:38:11,160
matter where you are, whether you're alone

574
00:38:11,660 --> 00:38:14,640
or with a group of people. I tell people just to get out of their

575
00:38:15,140 --> 00:38:18,720
comfort zone because the animals never have any comfort.

576
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:23,200
Right. So they will. We will never have it for

577
00:38:23,700 --> 00:38:27,540
a minute or an hour at a protest. Whatever they're saying to us, we will

578
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:31,100
never have it as bad as them. Ever.

579
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,620
Exactly. Ever. So that's my driving force.

580
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,340
Yeah. You know, the last couple Thanksgivings, I haven't

581
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,660
gone to family. I've stayed in my neighborhood and have fed the

582
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:46,620
unsheltered in my neighborhood. And they all get

583
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,500
vegan food. I won't give them, you know,

584
00:38:50,700 --> 00:38:54,180
animal products. Right. And, and so much for

585
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,380
the, for the people who say that, you know, we don't care about humans,

586
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,360
we only care about anim. Right. They say. I hear

587
00:39:01,860 --> 00:39:04,840
anyway, sometimes I was going to ask you what, what keeps you going?

588
00:39:05,240 --> 00:39:09,000
You're talking about that your driving force. I don't have burnout.

589
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:12,040
A lot of people ask me if I get burned out.

590
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:15,880
That's another question. Yeah, yeah. For some reason,

591
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:20,480
I mean, sometimes I get tired of going to the racetrack

592
00:39:20,980 --> 00:39:24,760
in the summer because I'm there every weekend. It's hotter than hell

593
00:39:25,260 --> 00:39:28,980
there. And then if I

594
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:34,100
think about not having a protest on a weekend, then I have enormous

595
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:38,300
guilt about even thinking about not

596
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,100
organizing a protest. So I do have a

597
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:44,340
lot of guilt when it comes to the animals.

598
00:39:45,460 --> 00:39:48,900
Anytime I have an opportunity to talk about

599
00:39:48,980 --> 00:39:52,380
them, like at the racetrack, our protests

600
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:56,340
are non disruptive unless someone disrupts our protest.

601
00:39:57,460 --> 00:40:00,740
They're more, they're more Educational and,

602
00:40:01,300 --> 00:40:04,620
you know, to get on the property at Del Mar was not an

603
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,900
easy thing to do years ago because we used to protest on the street.

604
00:40:09,860 --> 00:40:12,820
And then, you know, I said, no, we're going to go inside.

605
00:40:12,980 --> 00:40:16,620
So it was a kind of a big legal thing.

606
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,820
But they allow me to stay there because I am professional.

607
00:40:21,140 --> 00:40:24,740
Right. Creating those relationships is

608
00:40:25,240 --> 00:40:28,440
good, you know, with different. You know, we've. We. We've done that over the years

609
00:40:28,940 --> 00:40:32,480
with different venues. And if those relationships.

610
00:40:32,980 --> 00:40:36,120
And they know, you know, a lot of time the police are friendly,

611
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,000
they're on our side. I find, too,

612
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,999
you know, because they know we're just, you know, I always say to the police,

613
00:40:43,499 --> 00:40:46,360
I'm just here to speak for the animals who can't speak for themselves. You know,

614
00:40:46,860 --> 00:40:49,400
a lot of the times they go, okay, you know. Yeah, but good things come

615
00:40:49,900 --> 00:40:53,280
from that. Like at the Del Mar protest, you know, we work with a

616
00:40:53,780 --> 00:40:56,600
different law enforcement agency than the San Diego police.

617
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:00,020
And before my protests every summer,

618
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:05,220
I have to meet with security and the police and legal

619
00:41:05,380 --> 00:41:08,500
people, even though it's always the

620
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,340
same. But a few years ago, I've gone through

621
00:41:12,500 --> 00:41:16,100
four or five different people, different law

622
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:20,020
enforcement people that are in charge of protests and

623
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:24,140
demonstrations. So they have a whole department there. And I've

624
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:27,170
gone through four or five of those people.

625
00:41:27,890 --> 00:41:31,130
And the last one

626
00:41:31,630 --> 00:41:34,890
who I'm still in contact with, he left that position, but is still with the

627
00:41:35,390 --> 00:41:38,970
department. When I first met him three years ago, when he was new to

628
00:41:39,470 --> 00:41:43,050
the job, we met and, you know, we talked about horse

629
00:41:43,550 --> 00:41:46,770
racing, and I told him why I was there and how important it was

630
00:41:47,010 --> 00:41:51,130
and how bad it is. Right. And I've

631
00:41:51,630 --> 00:41:54,850
been mentoring him for several years, and he's a vegan now,

632
00:41:55,650 --> 00:41:59,450
and. I know this story. Yeah, it's great.

633
00:41:59,850 --> 00:42:03,170
Great. I know, I know we're working on the rest of

634
00:42:03,670 --> 00:42:06,970
his family, but some of the other officers that did leave,

635
00:42:08,490 --> 00:42:12,090
you know, they call me before they are. You know, they call

636
00:42:12,590 --> 00:42:15,450
me to tell me that they're leaving that position or they're going to retire.

637
00:42:15,930 --> 00:42:18,570
And I usually meet with them. They want to meet with me,

638
00:42:18,890 --> 00:42:22,650
so I'll meet with them. And they thank me

639
00:42:23,150 --> 00:42:26,420
for being there. Awesome. And they encourage me never

640
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:30,460
to stop. So even though, you know, a lot of them,

641
00:42:30,700 --> 00:42:33,500
you know, they have to stay unbiased when they're there.

642
00:42:33,980 --> 00:42:37,660
Actually were supporting me behind the scenes,

643
00:42:38,460 --> 00:42:42,180
and that's really, really important. It really is. Those things I

644
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,260
have to have. Yeah, you're super, super likable person.

645
00:42:45,980 --> 00:42:49,300
You know, like, some people hearing some of your Stories may

646
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:53,330
be, like, intimidated, like, oh, I couldn't do that. You put so

647
00:42:53,830 --> 00:42:56,970
much thought. And that's what I'm. What I'm thinking as you're speaking is,

648
00:42:57,050 --> 00:43:01,530
is you put so much thought into everything you do, and you really analyze

649
00:43:02,030 --> 00:43:05,610
the work you're doing. You analyze, is this the right thing to do? And,

650
00:43:05,930 --> 00:43:09,210
you know, you put so much thought and heart and soul into it, and that's.

651
00:43:09,710 --> 00:43:13,050
That's. That's just so important. And, you know, I. I admire

652
00:43:13,550 --> 00:43:16,170
that. I admire you for all of that so much.

653
00:43:16,970 --> 00:43:20,880
What. What do you think is the biggest challenge

654
00:43:21,380 --> 00:43:25,520
facing the animal rights movement right now? That's a big

655
00:43:26,020 --> 00:43:29,640
question. It is a big question because it's changed so

656
00:43:30,140 --> 00:43:33,440
much. Even before COVID came into the picture, because I protested

657
00:43:33,940 --> 00:43:37,120
all through Covid, I had protested the racetrack,

658
00:43:37,620 --> 00:43:41,680
even though they were racing, and there were no people going to

659
00:43:42,180 --> 00:43:45,400
the races, but we were still there every weekend.

660
00:43:45,900 --> 00:43:49,570
I felt that was really important. Um, the horses have

661
00:43:50,070 --> 00:43:51,850
to be there. The animals have to be there. We have to be there.

662
00:43:52,350 --> 00:43:56,010
We did that. Exactly. Exactly. So I think,

663
00:43:56,330 --> 00:44:00,090
you know, and this isn't to bash people on

664
00:44:00,250 --> 00:44:04,570
their intentions of animal

665
00:44:05,070 --> 00:44:08,770
rights, what they're eating or anything

666
00:44:09,270 --> 00:44:12,810
like that, but I think some people come into the movement

667
00:44:13,310 --> 00:44:16,760
for the wrong reason, especially now with so

668
00:44:17,260 --> 00:44:21,360
much social media. Right. And I've seen a lot of people leave activism

669
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,360
because their heart wasn't into what they were doing.

670
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:29,760
Right. And. But I would have to say the

671
00:44:30,260 --> 00:44:34,040
majority of people that are doing animal rights now do

672
00:44:34,540 --> 00:44:38,120
it for the animals. Right. And I love to mentor

673
00:44:38,620 --> 00:44:42,000
people, and, you know, I don't pretend to know it

674
00:44:42,500 --> 00:44:46,290
all and at all. I just know what works for me. Right. And it may

675
00:44:46,790 --> 00:44:49,370
not work for other people. I'm pretty bold,

676
00:44:49,850 --> 00:44:53,130
and most people are not.

677
00:44:53,290 --> 00:44:56,170
You know, they worry about the outcome, their job,

678
00:44:56,650 --> 00:44:59,450
you know, their position in society or whatever.

679
00:44:59,610 --> 00:45:02,330
Right. I think,

680
00:45:02,730 --> 00:45:06,570
you know, grabbing people at a very early age is

681
00:45:06,650 --> 00:45:10,410
very important. I. I had a young

682
00:45:10,910 --> 00:45:14,010
woman reach out to me years ago that went to a high school here,

683
00:45:14,510 --> 00:45:17,350
local, and she. They had started,

684
00:45:17,850 --> 00:45:21,070
like, a vegetarian club, and she asked me if I

685
00:45:21,570 --> 00:45:25,510
could come to the school, and I said, well, I'll try.

686
00:45:25,910 --> 00:45:29,670
So that was a whole process, you know, getting interviewed by the principal

687
00:45:30,170 --> 00:45:33,590
and the vice principal. And so I got

688
00:45:34,090 --> 00:45:38,310
to go to the school. I got to speak to the whole student body and

689
00:45:38,950 --> 00:45:42,860
was in a lot of classrooms, but these girls needed

690
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:46,740
help because there was no food for them to eat on

691
00:45:47,240 --> 00:45:49,220
the school campus. And,

692
00:45:50,660 --> 00:45:53,860
you know, so I. I ended up going out there for almost

693
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,980
two months. On Fridays and to teach them how to

694
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:02,460
advocate for themselves and, you know, how they could leaflet

695
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:06,140
at lunch with their classmates, how they can go

696
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:09,970
to the school boards and ask for food that they can

697
00:46:10,470 --> 00:46:14,130
eat. And I spent a lot of time out there

698
00:46:14,630 --> 00:46:18,690
and I really enjoyed it. I got very close with the teachers and with

699
00:46:19,190 --> 00:46:22,570
a lot of students. Yeah, and sounds so rewarding to be.

700
00:46:23,070 --> 00:46:26,170
Able to really teach people how to be advocates.

701
00:46:26,810 --> 00:46:30,570
I'm still in touch with some of these girls. They've graduated college

702
00:46:31,070 --> 00:46:34,680
and have a life and they're not

703
00:46:35,180 --> 00:46:38,120
eating animals. So that makes me really, really happy.

704
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:42,520
And so I love getting

705
00:46:43,020 --> 00:46:46,360
in where I have a larger audience that I can

706
00:46:46,860 --> 00:46:50,840
speak to. I got invited to at the

707
00:46:51,340 --> 00:46:55,360
University of California here in San Diego years

708
00:46:55,860 --> 00:46:59,240
ago at a protest at SeaWorld. And some students came,

709
00:46:59,740 --> 00:47:03,240
pre med students, and they came to the SeaWorld protest.

710
00:47:03,720 --> 00:47:07,240
And after the protest, you know, I talked to them and thanked them for coming

711
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:11,640
because it was their first protest ever. Oh, wow. And when I was talking

712
00:47:12,140 --> 00:47:15,560
to them, I asked them how long they had been vegan.

713
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,240
And you know, it went dead silent.

714
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:23,560
And I said, oh. And then one of the girls says, well, I'm trying to

715
00:47:24,060 --> 00:47:27,230
get my boyfriend, you know, to be a vegetarian. And I said, oh,

716
00:47:27,730 --> 00:47:31,310
wait, you guys all eat animals? And they're like, yeah. And I said,

717
00:47:31,810 --> 00:47:34,990
so you came to a protest for some animals, but you eat

718
00:47:35,490 --> 00:47:38,870
others, right? I said, I think we should probably have a conversation about

719
00:47:39,370 --> 00:47:43,070
that. And so, you know, they're like,

720
00:47:43,570 --> 00:47:46,870
okay, whatever, you know, we're just here at SeaWorld,

721
00:47:47,370 --> 00:47:50,230
right? Anyway, the, the main guy there.

722
00:47:51,990 --> 00:47:53,430
You. Know, the most verbal,

723
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:58,520
he says, well, you know, I understand

724
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,720
what you're saying, but you know, we're not interested in that.

725
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:05,080
So I gave him one of my cards and I told him, I said,

726
00:48:05,240 --> 00:48:08,760
you know, if you change your mind, just call me. And so

727
00:48:09,260 --> 00:48:13,360
a couple months had passed and I get a phone call, like at 2:30

728
00:48:13,860 --> 00:48:17,480
in the morning. I don't know, he's probably been drinking or partying.

729
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:20,840
And he called me up. Oh, and before we left,

730
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:25,240
before they left SeaWorld, he says, well, you don't know my name. And I

731
00:48:25,740 --> 00:48:28,160
said, oh, I don't need to know your name. And he goes, well, how,

732
00:48:28,660 --> 00:48:32,920
how will you know it's me? I said, just tell me that you're

733
00:48:33,420 --> 00:48:37,119
the species that I met at SeaWorld. And he goes, oh,

734
00:48:37,619 --> 00:48:40,640
that was rude. I said, yeah, but it was true.

735
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:43,280
So when he called me in the middle of the night,

736
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:47,920
he said, hey, it's me, the speciest. And I said,

737
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:52,200
okay, number one, don't call me at 2:30 and I'll call you back during the

738
00:48:52,700 --> 00:48:56,160
day. I called him and

739
00:48:56,320 --> 00:49:00,920
he told me that he was so upset

740
00:49:01,420 --> 00:49:05,240
about what I said to him about the animals calling

741
00:49:05,740 --> 00:49:09,360
him a species, which he quite didn't understand what that meant,

742
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:13,680
and that he had thought about it for about two months and

743
00:49:14,180 --> 00:49:16,960
that he indeed stopped eating animals. Awesome.

744
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:20,960
And he told me he was talking to one of his professors,

745
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:24,520
and on that, the professor wanted me to come in and

746
00:49:25,020 --> 00:49:28,080
lecture. So that got my foot in the door at that university,

747
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:32,400
which was great. Yeah. So I went there several times.

748
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:37,440
You know, we started off slow and casual, and then I ended up

749
00:49:37,940 --> 00:49:41,440
in one of the large lecture halls and a couple of my friends came.

750
00:49:42,010 --> 00:49:45,690
You know, I said, you know, I need someone to come, you know, that can

751
00:49:45,850 --> 00:49:48,730
kind of rate my skills there,

752
00:49:49,210 --> 00:49:53,130
you know, to make sure I'm doing a good job. Because I never take notes

753
00:49:53,630 --> 00:49:56,170
when I lecture. I just speak freely.

754
00:49:56,330 --> 00:49:59,810
Right. It works a little bit easier for me than reading

755
00:50:00,310 --> 00:50:04,330
something. Right. And I was out there several times and

756
00:50:05,530 --> 00:50:08,970
was very successful. I really enjoyed being out there,

757
00:50:09,540 --> 00:50:12,660
which led me to be on their public radio at the

758
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:17,580
university. And I did some podcasts with some students there who

759
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:22,180
are now in journalism. And, you know, one thing just leads

760
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:26,500
to another thing. Yeah. And. And you maintain optimism

761
00:50:27,140 --> 00:50:30,220
always. Which is very hard, I think, for all

762
00:50:30,720 --> 00:50:33,620
of us. You know, at times we have bad days or.

763
00:50:34,660 --> 00:50:38,690
And you don't get burned out. I think that's really amazing

764
00:50:38,930 --> 00:50:42,290
because I think a lot of people do get burned out or. Yeah.

765
00:50:42,850 --> 00:50:45,610
Or they have those, those negative moments. But don't,

766
00:50:46,110 --> 00:50:49,250
don't think I don't. Because when I do leave,

767
00:50:49,730 --> 00:50:51,890
like after a protest at Del Mar,

768
00:50:53,090 --> 00:50:56,850
it takes me about two or three days to recover mentally.

769
00:50:57,170 --> 00:51:01,770
Right. It's a lot. I have a lot of pain

770
00:51:02,270 --> 00:51:06,190
when I'm out there mentally, especially if a horse dies

771
00:51:06,270 --> 00:51:08,190
that day. Right. And,

772
00:51:10,350 --> 00:51:14,310
you know, which, you know, leads me to guilt for not

773
00:51:14,810 --> 00:51:17,990
being there if I just, you know, think about not going. So I can't even

774
00:51:18,490 --> 00:51:22,190
think about it. Right. But I, I recover.

775
00:51:22,350 --> 00:51:25,710
I'm not in therapy. I just,

776
00:51:25,950 --> 00:51:29,190
I think that. I think that's. I think that's a normal feeling. I feel

777
00:51:29,690 --> 00:51:33,050
like that too. Sometimes. I feel a few days after, you know,

778
00:51:33,550 --> 00:51:36,530
I'll still do my work or whatever, but I'm just like, you know,

779
00:51:37,030 --> 00:51:40,410
okay, you know, regrouping and, and, and,

780
00:51:40,570 --> 00:51:44,170
and it's. It sounds like you are 247

781
00:51:44,250 --> 00:51:47,769
activism, but. Yeah, but. And you are in a lot of ways.

782
00:51:48,269 --> 00:51:51,370
Right. But you do. Do Things for fun, right? Yeah, sometimes.

783
00:51:51,870 --> 00:51:54,490
Yeah. I have. I have a fun life. Yes.

784
00:51:54,970 --> 00:51:57,890
Tell us a little bit about that. Like, what do you do? I like to

785
00:51:58,390 --> 00:52:00,810
ask people, you know, because we,

786
00:52:01,210 --> 00:52:04,610
you know, I have guests on. And, you know, people think

787
00:52:05,110 --> 00:52:07,530
we have, like, this, like, superhero cape on. Right.

788
00:52:08,410 --> 00:52:11,650
And we're different from them. But I want. Yeah. To know that we're. We're the

789
00:52:12,150 --> 00:52:15,610
same. Right. And. And everyone's capable of doing what. What we do

790
00:52:15,770 --> 00:52:19,450
and. But. Well, I have to do self care. Yeah.

791
00:52:19,950 --> 00:52:22,490
Tell me about to do self care. It's essential.

792
00:52:23,050 --> 00:52:26,630
Yeah. All of us. Right. So some of the things that

793
00:52:27,130 --> 00:52:31,270
I enjoy is I love to go to concerts, and I'm very diverse

794
00:52:31,770 --> 00:52:34,990
with my music also. So I

795
00:52:35,490 --> 00:52:38,950
saw Nine Inch Nails recently here in Los Angeles, which is great.

796
00:52:39,430 --> 00:52:42,750
We sat up front, and then two weeks later, I went to the

797
00:52:43,250 --> 00:52:46,750
opera. Awesome. Well, that's good.

798
00:52:47,250 --> 00:52:50,390
You're diverse in your activism and your music. Yeah,

799
00:52:50,470 --> 00:52:54,070
I dance. I take a dance class on Sunday.

800
00:52:54,150 --> 00:52:57,440
I was a dancer when I. I shouldn't say when I

801
00:52:57,940 --> 00:53:00,720
was younger, because I still am young and I still dance.

802
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:06,200
And the dance that I do is a

803
00:53:06,700 --> 00:53:10,560
regenerative health dance class about movement

804
00:53:11,060 --> 00:53:15,000
and music. And that really heals me after

805
00:53:15,500 --> 00:53:20,800
a weekend out at the racetrack. And I feel amazing after I

806
00:53:21,300 --> 00:53:24,450
go to sound baths. Oh, that's fantastic. Yeah.

807
00:53:25,650 --> 00:53:29,810
Really good ones here. And, you know, that relaxes

808
00:53:30,310 --> 00:53:34,650
me. Yeah. I love that you're doing things for your mind or

809
00:53:35,150 --> 00:53:37,650
your body. Movement and our. Our bodies is very important.

810
00:53:38,290 --> 00:53:41,810
And then also, you know, entertainment. Right. So concert

811
00:53:42,310 --> 00:53:45,810
settings to relax, let your hair down and. And just be Ellen for

812
00:53:46,310 --> 00:53:50,010
a little while. Right. Yeah. I mean, I have to escape a little bit,

813
00:53:50,510 --> 00:53:53,930
but it's always there. Yeah. When I go to the sound

814
00:53:54,430 --> 00:53:58,090
bath, all these healers are there in one of

815
00:53:58,590 --> 00:54:01,690
the baths that I go to. It's a very large event here at a beautiful

816
00:54:02,190 --> 00:54:05,730
place at an old church downtown. There's about a hundred people that come

817
00:54:06,050 --> 00:54:09,170
to the sound bath. And then I realize these

818
00:54:09,670 --> 00:54:12,850
people that are healers eat animals.

819
00:54:13,890 --> 00:54:17,170
So, you know, frustrating. Then I have to have,

820
00:54:17,470 --> 00:54:20,590
you know, conversations with them after the sound bath.

821
00:54:21,550 --> 00:54:25,630
Like, okay, I'm a little. And I tell them, I'm a little conflicted right

822
00:54:26,130 --> 00:54:29,950
now about who you are. And, you know,

823
00:54:30,450 --> 00:54:34,190
we can heal our bodies if we're putting animals in our bodies.

824
00:54:34,430 --> 00:54:37,750
Right. Because, you know, people that eat

825
00:54:38,250 --> 00:54:41,550
animals ingest all their pain and suffering,

826
00:54:42,270 --> 00:54:45,310
and I think that's not healthy.

827
00:54:46,030 --> 00:54:49,550
So, you know, I always have stuff on me

828
00:54:50,050 --> 00:54:53,310
no matter where I go. Like I said, there's Always an opportunity.

829
00:54:53,950 --> 00:54:57,110
And then, you know, I dress for it. When I go to the grocery store,

830
00:54:57,610 --> 00:55:00,990
the farmer's market, I wear something about the animals.

831
00:55:01,150 --> 00:55:05,070
So when people approach me and ask me or

832
00:55:05,570 --> 00:55:08,750
agree with me, I can have conversations with them. For me,

833
00:55:09,070 --> 00:55:14,140
it is very important to have

834
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:18,340
conversations with people all the time. And you know,

835
00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:22,300
some people, you know, I have to, you know, it's hard for

836
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:26,180
me to understand that won't change. They don't want to change.

837
00:55:26,820 --> 00:55:31,060
And. But I think if you give people the opportunity

838
00:55:31,540 --> 00:55:34,660
to get educated and give them

839
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:38,830
the resources to educate themselves, um, whether it be

840
00:55:39,330 --> 00:55:42,870
laypeople or even healthcare providers, because, you know, I have some

841
00:55:43,370 --> 00:55:46,670
issues with doctors that, you know,

842
00:55:47,230 --> 00:55:50,470
don't do that. Like, my husband died a few years ago.

843
00:55:50,970 --> 00:55:54,270
He was very sick. So we spent a lot of time in the hospital and

844
00:55:54,770 --> 00:55:59,070
some of the biggest issues that we had was food in

845
00:55:59,570 --> 00:56:03,270
the hospital. And that was my, one of my biggest stressors

846
00:56:03,770 --> 00:56:07,080
there. It's mind blowing, isn't it? It is. And one

847
00:56:07,580 --> 00:56:11,200
time he was, he ended up in a cardiac unit for a while and I

848
00:56:11,700 --> 00:56:15,640
saw these people getting discharged with huge bags of

849
00:56:16,140 --> 00:56:19,480
medications and, you know, not being

850
00:56:19,980 --> 00:56:24,040
educated about diet and nutrition. And that was the perfect opportunity

851
00:56:24,540 --> 00:56:28,360
for them, you know, to get it because they all almost died

852
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:32,200
from, you know, food related illnesses.

853
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:35,640
Right. And my husband used to get like, you know,

854
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:38,920
really nervous. So if they would discharge someone,

855
00:56:39,720 --> 00:56:42,800
I would say, I'll be right back. And he goes,

856
00:56:43,300 --> 00:56:45,720
don't do it. And I said, oh no, I'm gonna do it.

857
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:50,760
So you make me laugh so much. But I love it.

858
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:55,080
And I was always kind with them. You know, I end

859
00:56:55,580 --> 00:56:58,760
up in the elevator with them. They had no place to go, right? So,

860
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:02,120
you know, I would tell them, hey, you know,

861
00:57:03,380 --> 00:57:07,460
I see you're getting discharged. I didn't hear anyone talk to you about food

862
00:57:07,700 --> 00:57:12,220
and nutrition. And I'm going to give you some resources where

863
00:57:12,720 --> 00:57:15,940
you can do your own education and take your health back in your hands.

864
00:57:16,500 --> 00:57:20,340
And so I would give them, you know, information about documentaries

865
00:57:20,660 --> 00:57:23,940
and, you know, doctors that I work with that are

866
00:57:24,440 --> 00:57:26,900
vegan, that are very well known, that are amazing.

867
00:57:27,620 --> 00:57:31,530
And then I would give them, you know, outreach material and

868
00:57:32,030 --> 00:57:35,810
I would tell them, do your research. You know, your doctors

869
00:57:36,310 --> 00:57:40,410
aren't always right and it's your body and

870
00:57:40,910 --> 00:57:44,530
you can put whatever you want into it. I said, but you're leaving here with

871
00:57:45,030 --> 00:57:48,610
20 different pills of medication which is not going

872
00:57:49,110 --> 00:57:52,650
to cure you. The only thing that's going to fix you is your diet.

873
00:57:53,370 --> 00:57:57,370
So they couldn't wait for my husband to get discharged in that

874
00:57:57,870 --> 00:58:01,420
hospital. I mean, they were like, oh,

875
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:05,420
my God. Because, you know, she's been up and down the elevator all day talking

876
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:09,140
to. People I know and. And the nurses and,

877
00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:13,420
you know, everyone, you know, that worked on the floor had to know what

878
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:16,740
was going on. And they don't get it either.

879
00:58:17,220 --> 00:58:20,900
Like, I had a nurse come in. In my husband's room. It said

880
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:24,670
on the board that, you know, he was vegan, right? And I walked

881
00:58:25,170 --> 00:58:28,510
in one day unannounced at lunch, and they had just served

882
00:58:29,010 --> 00:58:32,670
lunch, and they gave him a turkey sandwich. And I flipped out,

883
00:58:32,830 --> 00:58:36,270
right? So, you know, I went to the nurses station, asked to talk

884
00:58:36,770 --> 00:58:39,390
to the dietitian, and,

885
00:58:39,790 --> 00:58:43,670
you know, they got a big talking that

886
00:58:44,170 --> 00:58:47,590
day, and. But I had a nurse

887
00:58:48,090 --> 00:58:51,430
come in one day, and she was, you know, doing her chart notes,

888
00:58:51,670 --> 00:58:55,830
and she asked me, you know, like, very innocently,

889
00:58:56,550 --> 00:59:00,470
she says, so, do you guys eat fish? And I

890
00:59:00,970 --> 00:59:04,350
said, well, as far as I know, fish are

891
00:59:04,850 --> 00:59:08,470
not a plant, and eating fish is eating meat.

892
00:59:08,870 --> 00:59:11,950
And she wasn't being sarcastic. I mean,

893
00:59:12,450 --> 00:59:15,190
she honestly didn't know, right? They.

894
00:59:15,940 --> 00:59:19,700
So many people think we. I did an episode with Mary Finelli from Fish

895
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:23,540
Feel last season, and the title was Fish are Animals.

896
00:59:24,500 --> 00:59:28,060
Because people do not. They don't realize. They think that fish are

897
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:32,500
this just this benign thing, that they don't feel pain and they don't,

898
00:59:32,660 --> 00:59:35,980
you know, but they are animals. They live and breathe and they

899
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:39,740
want to live. And, you know, and, yeah, I think.

900
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:43,940
Go ahead. People believe that. I mean, we have a live fish market

901
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:48,040
here in San Diego at a place called Tuna

902
00:59:48,540 --> 00:59:51,960
harbor, of all places. And I decided a few

903
00:59:52,460 --> 00:59:56,160
years ago, I think, you know, it's time we start protesting there and

904
00:59:56,660 --> 01:00:00,240
disrupt. So, you know, I gathered some people and,

905
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:03,880
you know, people could buy. I hate to even say

906
01:00:04,380 --> 01:00:08,040
this word, fresh fish, but, you know, they were chopping them up on this small

907
01:00:08,540 --> 01:00:11,880
pier with all these fishing boats there, right? It was so

908
01:00:12,380 --> 01:00:15,590
disgusting. Yeah. And people. Hundreds of people would line

909
01:00:16,090 --> 01:00:20,230
up, you know, for the fish market to open. So we had protesters

910
01:00:20,730 --> 01:00:24,630
outside, and we had lots of information for them. And then

911
01:00:24,870 --> 01:00:28,870
I decided that I would wear a bloody white apron

912
01:00:29,429 --> 01:00:33,270
and go onto the pier with the people shopping,

913
01:00:33,670 --> 01:00:37,390
which they were appalled, right? They're like. They were so

914
01:00:37,890 --> 01:00:41,800
mad at me. They're like. They're like, why are you wearing this bloody apron?

915
01:00:42,300 --> 01:00:45,880
And I said, well, why are you watching them chop up bloody

916
01:00:46,380 --> 01:00:49,800
fish, right? I'm like, the blood on my apron is not real

917
01:00:50,300 --> 01:00:53,600
blood. But here you are, you know,

918
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:57,680
watching them you know, cut these animals apart.

919
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:01,280
I said, with your children. Right. And you're offended

920
01:01:01,600 --> 01:01:05,400
because I'm wearing a white apron with blood on there. Right. You're making them take

921
01:01:05,900 --> 01:01:09,240
notice of what's really happening, where people are just, like, in this fog.

922
01:01:09,740 --> 01:01:13,780
Right. They're just. They just go through their life just kind of just believing everything

923
01:01:13,940 --> 01:01:17,380
or they don't want to know a lot of times. So. So I

924
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:21,420
think that's why disruptions are. Are really. Oh, yeah. Form of

925
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:24,100
activism. And I wasn't screaming. Unexpected.

926
01:01:24,980 --> 01:01:28,940
Right, Right. Yeah. I think people think. Yeah. Talk about disruptions

927
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:32,780
a little bit, because I do think that people think that, you know,

928
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:36,580
they're always like, people just, you know, saying, you're a murderer or whatever.

929
01:01:36,740 --> 01:01:40,060
Yeah. It's not always like that. Now there's a time and

930
01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:43,900
place for everything. Like when I was on the pier,

931
01:01:44,060 --> 01:01:47,940
like, the. The people that worked there that run the

932
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:51,260
pier didn't want me on the pier. They're like, you can't go on here.

933
01:01:51,660 --> 01:01:54,979
And I said, well, I'm on here. And they're like, well, we're going

934
01:01:55,479 --> 01:01:58,740
to call the police. And I'm like, I don't care. Call the police. I am

935
01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:02,300
not breaking the law. So. Right. You know, go ahead and call the police.

936
01:02:03,020 --> 01:02:07,060
And, you know, nine out of 10 times, the cops knew me when

937
01:02:07,560 --> 01:02:10,860
they came, so, you know, they just left me alone. So there's,

938
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:15,180
you know, different forms of disruption, which doesn't mean you

939
01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:18,620
have to be screaming at people, calling them names.

940
01:02:19,980 --> 01:02:23,420
Just your presence there with me in a bloody apron

941
01:02:23,660 --> 01:02:27,820
was a disruption. Right. And there's a difference between disruption

942
01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:32,340
and civil disobedience, too. Exactly. And I think a lot of people don't understand that

943
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:36,380
either. I think I. I think that. I feel.

944
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:39,420
And I don't know if you agree, but I feel like there's a lot of

945
01:02:39,740 --> 01:02:43,180
Facebook groups and things that are vegan groups

946
01:02:43,580 --> 01:02:46,980
and they're. And. But they're. They're not activists. Right.

947
01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:51,060
And I'm hoping this podcast will inspire some people. Yeah. Because when

948
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:54,740
you're vegan, I mean, we want everyone to be vegan, right? Yes.

949
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:58,380
But we have to do more than just be vegan. You know, we can only

950
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:01,820
save a finite number of animals by just ourselves being vegan.

951
01:03:02,270 --> 01:03:05,790
But if we spread the message and find a way that works for you,

952
01:03:06,190 --> 01:03:09,470
and. And I think that people are afraid. So what do you say

953
01:03:09,970 --> 01:03:13,390
to people who are afraid? Someone who.

954
01:03:14,430 --> 01:03:18,030
I think there's a couple different groups of people. Some people may be overwhelmed.

955
01:03:18,510 --> 01:03:21,990
Yeah. By this conversation. Right. Like oh, my God, I could never do what

956
01:03:22,490 --> 01:03:25,710
Ellen does. Right. And then there's people that are like, oh, I don't want anyone

957
01:03:26,210 --> 01:03:29,470
to say something bad to me, or I don't want to get in trouble or.

958
01:03:29,970 --> 01:03:33,690
Or that's civil disobedience and I don't want to do that. Or. So there's

959
01:03:34,190 --> 01:03:37,410
a lot of stuff. Right. That people have surrounding activism.

960
01:03:37,970 --> 01:03:41,690
So what do you. Go ahead. You know, I tell people you have

961
01:03:42,190 --> 01:03:45,370
to do what's comfortable for you. Right. You don't

962
01:03:45,870 --> 01:03:48,930
have to come to a protest. There's other things you can do.

963
01:03:49,410 --> 01:03:53,530
You know, simple little. Like at work, you know, a lot of people, their co

964
01:03:54,030 --> 01:03:57,810
workers are not vegan. You know, what I do is

965
01:03:58,310 --> 01:04:01,680
I'll bake and bring in vegans. You can do food.

966
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:05,280
Food activism, right? Yeah, yeah. And we've done,

967
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:09,360
you know, a lot of that here in San Diego where,

968
01:04:11,280 --> 01:04:14,240
you know, like at St. Patrick's Day parade,

969
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:18,320
you know, they had booths after, and we would

970
01:04:18,820 --> 01:04:22,400
set up booths and hand out vegan food

971
01:04:22,900 --> 01:04:26,670
and not tell people that. That what they were eating was vegan and

972
01:04:27,170 --> 01:04:28,910
then have great conversations with them.

973
01:04:30,430 --> 01:04:34,150
You know, at Earth Day, we would have booths. I work

974
01:04:34,650 --> 01:04:37,710
with Mercy for Animals and Farm for years,

975
01:04:37,790 --> 01:04:41,630
where we did pay per view, which I really enjoy doing.

976
01:04:42,130 --> 01:04:45,710
And I used to teach it to other activists so they could do it.

977
01:04:46,210 --> 01:04:49,590
Also explain what that is, because for people who might not know. So pay

978
01:04:50,090 --> 01:04:52,590
per view. And they're not doing it anymore.

979
01:04:53,830 --> 01:04:56,670
You know, they phased out. Yeah.

980
01:04:57,170 --> 01:05:01,670
But we'd set up a booth. We'd have iPads

981
01:05:01,910 --> 01:05:05,590
or computers there, and we would lure people

982
01:05:05,750 --> 01:05:08,950
in. It just crack me up.

983
01:05:09,270 --> 01:05:12,556
You know, we. We would offer them a $1.

984
01:05:12,744 --> 01:05:16,870
$1 what? A six minute video.

985
01:05:17,190 --> 01:05:21,030
Yeah. And. But people did it, it sounds like. I mean,

986
01:05:21,530 --> 01:05:23,870
they would do it. They would come in and,

987
01:05:24,350 --> 01:05:28,350
you know, and I'd have like two people on one iPad

988
01:05:28,590 --> 01:05:31,710
with headphones. And, you know,

989
01:05:32,270 --> 01:05:35,590
I would tell them, you know, we're going to pay you

990
01:05:36,090 --> 01:05:39,470
a dollar to watch this video. I said, it's about animals.

991
01:05:39,870 --> 01:05:43,310
Right. And pain and suffering that they endure. Right.

992
01:05:43,810 --> 01:05:46,670
And six minutes long, you said. Yeah,

993
01:05:46,830 --> 01:05:50,050
okay. One is six, one is four. There's a couple

994
01:05:50,550 --> 01:05:53,890
different. That's a long time. That's a long time. Six minutes is a long time

995
01:05:54,390 --> 01:05:58,090
to watch. Yeah. And I would stay and observe them. Yeah,

996
01:05:58,590 --> 01:06:02,370
yeah. And they were like flabbergasted

997
01:06:02,870 --> 01:06:06,210
about what they were watching because you can't unsee it. Right? Yeah.

998
01:06:06,530 --> 01:06:10,050
And. And they, they couldn't even talk after.

999
01:06:10,550 --> 01:06:13,570
And. And some of them would be Like, I didn't know that happened.

1000
01:06:14,420 --> 01:06:18,020
And I said, well, how do you think your food gets to the grocery store?

1001
01:06:18,520 --> 01:06:22,420
These animals don't voluntarily give up their life so you can eat,

1002
01:06:22,580 --> 01:06:26,260
right? So, you know, we give them material, we give

1003
01:06:26,760 --> 01:06:30,980
them support, and it's just planting seeds.

1004
01:06:31,480 --> 01:06:33,140
I mean, you can't make people,

1005
01:06:34,260 --> 01:06:37,860
you know, change their beliefs. I mean, we were all

1006
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:42,150
raised. We're our parents in my family tried to

1007
01:06:42,650 --> 01:06:46,990
get me to eat it. But it's cultural and,

1008
01:06:47,230 --> 01:06:50,750
you know, there's so much more to it besides, you know,

1009
01:06:50,910 --> 01:06:55,030
being a vegan. I mean, the word vegan has a very big meaning

1010
01:06:55,530 --> 01:06:59,070
for a lot of different people. And it just, you know,

1011
01:06:59,570 --> 01:07:03,630
kind of. I just have a hard time sometimes

1012
01:07:03,950 --> 01:07:07,270
with. Not with vegans,

1013
01:07:07,770 --> 01:07:11,310
but you know, how we can be so different from

1014
01:07:11,810 --> 01:07:15,350
people that eat animals? Like, there's something in our brains

1015
01:07:15,750 --> 01:07:19,910
that's different, I think, with vegans. So in 2018,

1016
01:07:19,990 --> 01:07:22,870
when the animal rights conferences were going on,

1017
01:07:23,830 --> 01:07:27,390
they had a conference in la, and I did

1018
01:07:27,890 --> 01:07:30,150
get an award that year, and I don't like getting awards.

1019
01:07:31,650 --> 01:07:36,050
They kind of made me take it. But I.

1020
01:07:37,010 --> 01:07:40,850
You deserve a lot of awards for everything you do every day.

1021
01:07:41,350 --> 01:07:44,770
I don't do it for awards at all, and I don't even

1022
01:07:45,270 --> 01:07:48,610
like to be known for that. But what happened at that conference,

1023
01:07:48,850 --> 01:07:52,610
there was a new movie that came out called Dominion,

1024
01:07:53,010 --> 01:07:56,570
which is like Earthlings, but it came from Australia, and it was

1025
01:07:57,070 --> 01:08:00,730
like seven years of documentation in slaughterhouses. So I met the

1026
01:08:01,230 --> 01:08:05,000
producers there, and because of the award,

1027
01:08:05,160 --> 01:08:08,400
I told them, I want to bring this movie to

1028
01:08:08,900 --> 01:08:12,240
San Diego and show it in a movie theater. Can I get a copy of

1029
01:08:12,740 --> 01:08:15,880
your movie? Awesome. And they said, okay,

1030
01:08:16,120 --> 01:08:20,040
yeah. So I leave the conference, I come back

1031
01:08:20,540 --> 01:08:23,720
here, and I'm like, okay, how am I going to do this? So I

1032
01:08:24,120 --> 01:08:28,450
reeled in a couple of my friends that were activists, and we

1033
01:08:28,950 --> 01:08:32,490
had set this up. We had to do it

1034
01:08:32,990 --> 01:08:36,290
quickly, and we put it together in just a few weeks.

1035
01:08:36,850 --> 01:08:40,610
We talked to a large independent movie theater here

1036
01:08:41,110 --> 01:08:44,610
in my neighborhood where they had. They showed a lot of indie

1037
01:08:45,110 --> 01:08:47,890
films and documentaries, and so they were on board.

1038
01:08:48,690 --> 01:08:52,610
And so we ended up renting their largest

1039
01:08:53,110 --> 01:08:56,830
theater. I think it seated 250 people. And then

1040
01:08:57,150 --> 01:09:00,630
we had movie posters made, like, they put in front of

1041
01:09:01,130 --> 01:09:04,310
the theater, and we had one made up of Dominion. And then

1042
01:09:04,810 --> 01:09:06,990
I had smaller ones that we put all over town.

1043
01:09:07,870 --> 01:09:11,709
And then we had to sell tickets to it to

1044
01:09:12,209 --> 01:09:15,550
pay for the theater. Right. And we had local

1045
01:09:15,710 --> 01:09:19,430
vegan organizations because we decided to have a raffle

1046
01:09:19,930 --> 01:09:23,549
there to get people to come. So most of the vegans

1047
01:09:24,049 --> 01:09:27,069
wanted to come and I told them they couldn't come unless they brought a non

1048
01:09:27,569 --> 01:09:31,109
vegan. That's, that's, that's perfect. Yeah. So,

1049
01:09:31,509 --> 01:09:34,869
because you can't, we just can't. Have the choir sitting there. And yeah.

1050
01:09:35,369 --> 01:09:38,789
I'm like, you already know. If you don't bring someone that's not vegan, don't come.

1051
01:09:39,289 --> 01:09:42,989
Right. You already know and you're re traumatizing yourself. Like at least have

1052
01:09:43,489 --> 01:09:46,549
somebody there and experience the trauma with them and then change them at the same

1053
01:09:47,049 --> 01:09:50,549
time. Right. Yeah. And I'd already seen the movie twice that weekend and it,

1054
01:09:51,049 --> 01:09:54,520
yeah, it was extreme. Yeah. So I, that's a lot. I paid for

1055
01:09:55,020 --> 01:09:58,160
a lot of people's tickets that I knew that were non vegan.

1056
01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:02,400
And they came, we were packed, it was sold

1057
01:10:02,900 --> 01:10:06,680
out. And so I had little pamphlets made up before

1058
01:10:07,180 --> 01:10:10,920
the movie with my name and a couple other friends for

1059
01:10:11,420 --> 01:10:15,280
people to call after they saw the movie. Like self care pamphlets.

1060
01:10:15,780 --> 01:10:18,800
Yeah. And then before the movie and some people were there, they weren't even sure

1061
01:10:19,300 --> 01:10:22,850
why they, what they were going to watch. So before the movie I spoke to

1062
01:10:23,350 --> 01:10:27,090
the audience and I told them, you know, what you're going to see is disturbing,

1063
01:10:27,590 --> 01:10:31,010
but it's very important that you sit through the whole movie and

1064
01:10:31,510 --> 01:10:34,850
absorb it, take it all in, even though it's difficult.

1065
01:10:35,090 --> 01:10:38,450
Yeah. And so I think two people

1066
01:10:38,950 --> 01:10:41,490
left at the beginning of the movie because it was like right in your face

1067
01:10:41,990 --> 01:10:45,010
on the big screen and loud and.

1068
01:10:46,110 --> 01:10:49,270
But most people stayed. And then after the movie there

1069
01:10:49,770 --> 01:10:53,150
was like dead silence in the theater. So, you know,

1070
01:10:53,650 --> 01:10:57,150
I talked to everyone after the movie to help them try to

1071
01:10:57,470 --> 01:11:01,430
understand what they saw, why we

1072
01:11:01,930 --> 01:11:06,030
had the movie there, how important it was, because you don't

1073
01:11:06,530 --> 01:11:09,230
see this anywhere else. Right. You know, so.

1074
01:11:09,550 --> 01:11:12,370
And we passed out self care, you know,

1075
01:11:12,870 --> 01:11:16,410
brochures for everyone to call because I knew it would be

1076
01:11:16,910 --> 01:11:20,490
really hard for some people after what they witnessed. And the same

1077
01:11:20,990 --> 01:11:23,170
thing at pay per view. It was very difficult for people.

1078
01:11:25,090 --> 01:11:29,170
I don't know how many people stopped eating animals after watching that.

1079
01:11:29,330 --> 01:11:32,050
I know one of my coworkers did not stop.

1080
01:11:33,410 --> 01:11:37,090
We came back after the July 4th holiday and

1081
01:11:37,590 --> 01:11:40,960
at lunchtime she was eating an animal. And you

1082
01:11:41,460 --> 01:11:44,480
know, I asked her about it. I said, you know, I said,

1083
01:11:44,980 --> 01:11:48,520
I, I know you saw the movie. I said, is there something about that movie

1084
01:11:49,020 --> 01:11:52,200
that you did not understand? Because I'll explain it to you. Right.

1085
01:11:52,700 --> 01:11:56,160
And she goes, no, I understood it. Right. And she didn't care.

1086
01:11:56,320 --> 01:11:59,440
Right. She's just like, compartmentalizing it and, you know.

1087
01:11:59,940 --> 01:12:02,880
Well, yeah. And hoping that that's really not the truth, maybe,

1088
01:12:03,380 --> 01:12:06,230
or something. Yeah. So, you know.

1089
01:12:07,430 --> 01:12:10,550
Yeah. Doing things that are a little out of

1090
01:12:11,050 --> 01:12:13,350
the box is what I like to do. Yeah.

1091
01:12:13,910 --> 01:12:17,870
Disruptions. We have a rodeo that's

1092
01:12:18,370 --> 01:12:21,790
been at Petco Stadium here the

1093
01:12:22,290 --> 01:12:24,790
last two years, and it's been awful,

1094
01:12:26,230 --> 01:12:30,590
you know, bringing those animals there. So have

1095
01:12:31,090 --> 01:12:34,390
you guys worked on a rodeo band in San Diego? Yeah, yeah.

1096
01:12:34,900 --> 01:12:37,700
It's in the works, and we have some attorneys.

1097
01:12:38,660 --> 01:12:42,460
But I decided that I would start going to the mayor's house and

1098
01:12:42,960 --> 01:12:47,140
the council member's house and disrupting where they live and

1099
01:12:47,640 --> 01:12:51,260
calling them out for being animal abusers. And the

1100
01:12:51,760 --> 01:12:54,980
mayor here hates me. I mean, when he sees me,

1101
01:12:55,480 --> 01:12:59,460
he runs. And I'll stand in front of his fancy

1102
01:12:59,960 --> 01:13:03,500
apartment complex downtown with a sound system that's

1103
01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:07,110
taller than me and just blast him. Right.

1104
01:13:07,350 --> 01:13:10,870
And for me, it's shaming them

1105
01:13:10,950 --> 01:13:14,390
in their neighborhood. And we used to do this years

1106
01:13:14,890 --> 01:13:18,350
ago at UCLA with the vivisectors. We would go

1107
01:13:18,850 --> 01:13:21,990
to their houses and shame them for several hours.

1108
01:13:22,070 --> 01:13:24,390
And we were loud. And,

1109
01:13:25,670 --> 01:13:29,230
you know, they were always trying to arrest us, but they

1110
01:13:29,730 --> 01:13:33,210
couldn't because we knew the law on, you know, doing home

1111
01:13:33,710 --> 01:13:37,930
protests. And then I went to the CEO's house at Petco,

1112
01:13:38,250 --> 01:13:42,090
and we had an animal rights organization

1113
01:13:42,170 --> 01:13:45,210
printed up some banners and posters,

1114
01:13:45,370 --> 01:13:49,210
you know, that said that the CEO of Petco

1115
01:13:49,710 --> 01:13:53,370
was an animal abuser and supports animal abuse. And the same thing with our

1116
01:13:53,870 --> 01:13:57,050
mayor, Todd, Gloria. Right. And,

1117
01:13:57,620 --> 01:14:01,020
you know, we went to his neighborhood, and most of

1118
01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:05,380
his neighbors were, like, mortified. Right. You know, they didn't even know about

1119
01:14:05,880 --> 01:14:09,620
the rodeo. And then a few of them were unhappy we were there. And especially

1120
01:14:09,700 --> 01:14:13,340
the rodeo, the road, I mean, you know, other forms of

1121
01:14:13,840 --> 01:14:15,940
animal entertainment. It's so hidden, right? The cruelty.

1122
01:14:17,060 --> 01:14:20,820
But the. The rodeo is just blatant animal

1123
01:14:21,320 --> 01:14:24,860
abuse. And people take children there, it's so bad. And elected

1124
01:14:25,360 --> 01:14:28,540
officials, they need to be held accountable. And it's so. That's so important to do.

1125
01:14:29,040 --> 01:14:31,960
I think people are afraid to do things like that, too. I mean, not,

1126
01:14:32,460 --> 01:14:34,840
you know, and you don't have to go so far as going to their.

1127
01:14:35,340 --> 01:14:38,400
Their house, but, you know, attending meetings and writing letters.

1128
01:14:38,900 --> 01:14:41,840
Yeah. And, you know, so, like, what would you say. What would you say to

1129
01:14:42,340 --> 01:14:45,880
people having moved forward with advocacy or

1130
01:14:46,380 --> 01:14:49,440
activism? I think I kind of use the words interchangeably sometimes.

1131
01:14:49,940 --> 01:14:53,520
But what would you say, like, if someone, you know, was listening today and they're

1132
01:14:54,020 --> 01:14:57,080
really moved by. And they really want to be more of an advocate.

1133
01:14:57,580 --> 01:14:59,880
And how could they, how could they start? Like what, what would you tell them?

1134
01:15:00,380 --> 01:15:03,880
Well, there's city council meetings in

1135
01:15:04,380 --> 01:15:07,520
your districts. We went to one

1136
01:15:08,480 --> 01:15:12,160
last year. My district council

1137
01:15:12,240 --> 01:15:15,800
member was up for reelection and we ended up going there.

1138
01:15:16,300 --> 01:15:21,440
And while we did not disrupt being there, was disruptive to him because

1139
01:15:21,940 --> 01:15:25,090
of the rodeo, because they have the power to

1140
01:15:25,590 --> 01:15:28,810
say we're not going to have the rodeo here. Our mayor has the

1141
01:15:29,310 --> 01:15:33,010
power to stop it and he does not. I encourage

1142
01:15:33,510 --> 01:15:37,130
people to go to city council meetings,

1143
01:15:37,630 --> 01:15:40,689
go to town hall meetings, especially in their district.

1144
01:15:41,890 --> 01:15:45,330
We have so much animal abuse here in San Diego with SeaWorld

1145
01:15:45,650 --> 01:15:48,810
and the zoo, the San Diego Zoo, who. Everyone thinks it's

1146
01:15:49,310 --> 01:15:51,400
an amazing place. Yeah.

1147
01:15:52,520 --> 01:15:56,040
You know, the racetrack and there's a lot of rodeos in San Diego.

1148
01:15:56,600 --> 01:16:01,240
And you can show up and

1149
01:16:01,740 --> 01:16:05,200
just support by being there and opposing what's

1150
01:16:05,700 --> 01:16:08,840
going on. They'll give you one minute to speak out at

1151
01:16:09,340 --> 01:16:14,080
city council meetings. And if

1152
01:16:14,580 --> 01:16:16,880
people don't know what to say, they can reach out to me and I'll even

1153
01:16:17,380 --> 01:16:20,980
write them something to say that they can just read. I think it's

1154
01:16:21,480 --> 01:16:24,980
important that these elected officials know that we're

1155
01:16:25,480 --> 01:16:29,140
not going to back down and that we're going to be in their faces until

1156
01:16:29,640 --> 01:16:33,260
some change starts to happen. And changes do

1157
01:16:33,760 --> 01:16:37,660
happen. They absolutely do. It's happening everywhere

1158
01:16:38,160 --> 01:16:40,660
from, you know, like even the recent fur,

1159
01:16:42,100 --> 01:16:45,340
you know, that was a huge victory with Vogue to swear to

1160
01:16:45,840 --> 01:16:49,490
not have fur, you know, not infer anymore. I mean, these are huge, huge things.

1161
01:16:49,990 --> 01:16:54,010
And there are municipalities that are, yeah, they're, they're having bans

1162
01:16:54,510 --> 01:16:58,490
on, you know, anything from, you know, dogs, cats and rabbits sales to,

1163
01:16:58,570 --> 01:17:02,890
to rodeos or rodeo tools. And, and it does work.

1164
01:17:03,390 --> 01:17:06,890
And so what would you say to somebody who doesn't want to protest, who doesn't

1165
01:17:07,390 --> 01:17:10,810
want to, who doesn't want to speak at a meeting? Like what,

1166
01:17:11,310 --> 01:17:14,170
what could they, what could they do? I have some rapid fire questions to,

1167
01:17:14,670 --> 01:17:18,410
to end everything with, but what is your advice to just, just a regular everyday

1168
01:17:18,910 --> 01:17:22,290
person? Maybe they're vegan or they just became vegan or they've been

1169
01:17:22,790 --> 01:17:25,730
vegan for a while and they've been a little afraid, but they feel that little

1170
01:17:26,230 --> 01:17:28,610
bit of that guilt or that need to do something, but they don't know what

1171
01:17:29,110 --> 01:17:33,090
to do. I encourage people to, number one, ask for help if

1172
01:17:33,590 --> 01:17:37,370
they don't know what they want to do or how to do it,

1173
01:17:39,130 --> 01:17:42,620
you know, to reach out to me or other people that

1174
01:17:43,120 --> 01:17:46,340
are in the movement, have your

1175
01:17:46,840 --> 01:17:50,060
contact information. In the show notes, you always have our contact information.

1176
01:17:50,380 --> 01:17:53,660
Oh, yeah. And, you know. But go ahead. But I, you know,

1177
01:17:54,160 --> 01:17:57,420
encourage people, you know, to get out of their comfort zone,

1178
01:17:58,300 --> 01:18:01,820
whatever it is, even if it's having a conversation

1179
01:18:02,320 --> 01:18:05,660
with a family member or a friend. You don't

1180
01:18:06,160 --> 01:18:09,180
have to be hostile when you talk to them. You can be kind, loving,

1181
01:18:09,680 --> 01:18:13,200
and compassionate. You know, it doesn't mean that

1182
01:18:13,360 --> 01:18:16,320
activism makes you a mean person. Right.

1183
01:18:16,800 --> 01:18:20,480
I'm not a mean person. Although I can be a bitch sometimes.

1184
01:18:21,840 --> 01:18:25,120
Excuse my French. But you're not a

1185
01:18:25,620 --> 01:18:28,880
mean person. You're always speaking with, you know, when you're speaking for the animals.

1186
01:18:29,120 --> 01:18:33,400
And I think when you remind yourself of that, things flow

1187
01:18:33,900 --> 01:18:37,120
a little bit easier. Yeah. I mean, we're not doing it for us.

1188
01:18:37,200 --> 01:18:41,290
Like, people will tell me, you know, even at the racetrack,

1189
01:18:41,450 --> 01:18:45,290
you know, this is your agenda. And, you know,

1190
01:18:45,610 --> 01:18:48,810
we. We don't believe in your agenda. And I tell people this has.

1191
01:18:49,310 --> 01:18:53,690
This is not my agenda. I'm just telling the truth about industries

1192
01:18:53,850 --> 01:18:57,770
and what happens to animals. Yeah. It actually has absolutely

1193
01:18:58,270 --> 01:19:01,050
nothing to do with who I am. Right. They're not being transparent.

1194
01:19:01,210 --> 01:19:04,450
Right, Exactly. So they are not letting their patrons know what's

1195
01:19:04,950 --> 01:19:08,220
really happening. And that's. Exactly. And that's the whole thing at the

1196
01:19:08,720 --> 01:19:12,940
racetrack. I'll just touch base on that real quick. That I

1197
01:19:13,440 --> 01:19:16,340
think horse racing will end in California next.

1198
01:19:16,980 --> 01:19:20,860
And I see what these protests

1199
01:19:21,360 --> 01:19:24,460
have done out at Del Mar over the years. Saturday used to be

1200
01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:28,740
their busiest day, and now it's their slowest day. I can

1201
01:19:28,900 --> 01:19:32,580
count how many people are at the racetrack. And I come very close

1202
01:19:32,660 --> 01:19:36,900
every week on their attendance. And that is from years of

1203
01:19:37,400 --> 01:19:41,080
educating people at the racetrack. Right. And educating

1204
01:19:41,580 --> 01:19:44,920
the media. And it takes years. And I think that's

1205
01:19:45,420 --> 01:19:49,080
another thing that people, they. They. They have to. You have to put in

1206
01:19:49,580 --> 01:19:53,280
your mind in the beginning of this, when you start, it's the long game.

1207
01:19:53,520 --> 01:19:57,120
This isn't going. We're not going to end these cruel industries overnight.

1208
01:19:57,200 --> 01:20:00,640
But we'll never end them if you don't. I always like to say. I don't

1209
01:20:01,140 --> 01:20:04,800
know who said it first. I didn't. But if nothing changes, nothing changes.

1210
01:20:05,090 --> 01:20:08,690
Right. Yeah. So I think it's another thing we should think about, too, as we're,

1211
01:20:09,190 --> 01:20:12,890
you know. Well, I'm afraid or I don't know what to do. But you want

1212
01:20:13,390 --> 01:20:16,810
change. Right. So you have to change something. Right. But I've had

1213
01:20:17,310 --> 01:20:20,050
some successful campaigns that were major.

1214
01:20:20,370 --> 01:20:23,090
Yeah. Like with Southwest Airlines.

1215
01:20:23,250 --> 01:20:26,810
Yes. That was supporting SeaWorld. And then I ended

1216
01:20:27,310 --> 01:20:30,930
up targeting Them years ago. And I worked with an activist in Texas

1217
01:20:31,010 --> 01:20:34,660
and drew up a petition, and their main hub is in

1218
01:20:35,160 --> 01:20:38,580
Texas. And then I decided I would have protests at the

1219
01:20:39,080 --> 01:20:42,500
airport. It took me six months to get vetted by the FBI.

1220
01:20:42,900 --> 01:20:43,300
And.

1221
01:20:45,940 --> 01:20:49,100
You need to. Okay, someone needs to write the book

1222
01:20:49,600 --> 01:20:53,060
of your life. Anyway, it took me,

1223
01:20:53,560 --> 01:20:57,460
you know, several months so I could have protest inside

1224
01:20:57,960 --> 01:21:01,860
the airport. Wow. And I remember my first meeting out at the airport.

1225
01:21:03,170 --> 01:21:06,210
I thought I was going to meet the man in charge of security.

1226
01:21:06,690 --> 01:21:10,050
And when I got called into this big conference room, there was like 18

1227
01:21:10,210 --> 01:21:13,450
people in there. And I thought, oh, dear. And they

1228
01:21:13,950 --> 01:21:17,490
were all hostile. Oh, my. I mean, they were, you know,

1229
01:21:17,570 --> 01:21:20,490
So I was in there with them for a few hours, and by the time

1230
01:21:20,990 --> 01:21:24,410
we got out, they had changed their

1231
01:21:24,910 --> 01:21:28,660
thoughts about me because I had to tell them why I was doing what I

1232
01:21:29,160 --> 01:21:32,660
was doing. And they got it. Anyway, I had five

1233
01:21:33,160 --> 01:21:36,860
big protests out there. I had special banners

1234
01:21:37,020 --> 01:21:40,180
and posters made. It cost me a lot of money. I couldn't

1235
01:21:40,680 --> 01:21:45,180
get any money from any organizations. I used my own money and

1236
01:21:45,260 --> 01:21:48,660
got a lot of media. So anytime I had a SeaWorld protest,

1237
01:21:49,160 --> 01:21:52,660
we went to the San Diego airport and I was allowed to have

1238
01:21:53,160 --> 01:21:56,720
a protest in front of the Southwest counter. Awesome. And it was

1239
01:21:57,220 --> 01:22:01,520
great. I mean, it was like, so great. And then Southwest

1240
01:22:02,020 --> 01:22:05,720
Airline had considered ending their ties with SeaWorld and

1241
01:22:06,220 --> 01:22:08,880
wasn't going to do it until the end of the year. And then we,

1242
01:22:09,040 --> 01:22:12,800
you know, dropped the petition. There was like 200,000

1243
01:22:12,880 --> 01:22:16,320
signatures on it. And then I talked to them, I think

1244
01:22:16,820 --> 01:22:20,720
after my fourth or fifth protest, their higher

1245
01:22:21,220 --> 01:22:24,800
ups. And they told me they were going to sever their ties with SeaWorld.

1246
01:22:25,760 --> 01:22:29,460
One of my conditions with that was they had airplanes

1247
01:22:29,960 --> 01:22:32,620
here with orcas painted on them. Oh, right.

1248
01:22:33,420 --> 01:22:36,220
And I told them they had to repaint their planes,

1249
01:22:36,620 --> 01:22:40,420
which they did do. That is awesome. And so that

1250
01:22:40,920 --> 01:22:42,860
was. That was a big win. Yeah.

1251
01:22:44,060 --> 01:22:46,620
You know, there are little things, but big things.

1252
01:22:47,100 --> 01:22:50,900
And a lot of people became aware of SeaWorld

1253
01:22:51,400 --> 01:22:54,750
because of that campaign. And it was a good

1254
01:22:55,250 --> 01:22:59,550
campaign, and it sure was. You know, so I

1255
01:23:00,050 --> 01:23:03,150
don't know, as far as activists, I, you know, I will

1256
01:23:03,650 --> 01:23:07,430
mentor anyone that wants help. Anyone. If. If they want to

1257
01:23:07,930 --> 01:23:11,310
become a vegan, I'll go grocery shopping with them. I'll show them how to cook.

1258
01:23:11,470 --> 01:23:14,430
I mean, I'll do whatever it takes. Right.

1259
01:23:15,790 --> 01:23:19,310
You know, if someone needs help, I'm going to help them. Yeah.

1260
01:23:20,770 --> 01:23:24,010
You know, it's just part of, you know, I think

1261
01:23:24,510 --> 01:23:28,690
it's just our job. Right. As activists

1262
01:23:28,770 --> 01:23:32,090
and as vegans, that's our job. We have to

1263
01:23:32,590 --> 01:23:35,490
be able to help people make the transition,

1264
01:23:36,850 --> 01:23:40,290
encourage them, come to protest.

1265
01:23:40,790 --> 01:23:44,050
If they don't want to come to protest, that's okay. There's other things they can

1266
01:23:44,550 --> 01:23:48,050
do. They can leaflet, they can do campaigns online,

1267
01:23:48,690 --> 01:23:52,470
they can start petitions. Right. Or they

1268
01:23:52,970 --> 01:23:56,750
can just talk to family members where they feel safe and encourage

1269
01:23:57,250 --> 01:24:00,830
them to stop doing what they're doing. Right. So there's,

1270
01:24:01,330 --> 01:24:04,350
there's so many forms of activism, right? Exactly. Yeah,

1271
01:24:04,430 --> 01:24:08,470
exactly. So And I. With anything, you're going to get a lot of no's

1272
01:24:08,970 --> 01:24:12,190
before you get a yes. Right. Like when you're having person to person interactions,

1273
01:24:12,670 --> 01:24:15,910
if you're, if you want to do this and you're not

1274
01:24:16,410 --> 01:24:19,790
sure how to do it, find a mentor, you know, contact Ellen, she'll help you.

1275
01:24:20,320 --> 01:24:23,520
And, and it's like just learning how to have the conversations.

1276
01:24:23,760 --> 01:24:27,760
Role playing is good. Like I've, I, I did it with Patrick

1277
01:24:28,260 --> 01:24:31,520
a few times years ago. I want to talk to people about this, but I

1278
01:24:32,020 --> 01:24:35,560
don't, I don't want to get emotional or heated, you know, because I'm Italian.

1279
01:24:36,060 --> 01:24:39,120
So like, I like right away. Yeah,

1280
01:24:39,360 --> 01:24:42,320
but it's like, you know, finding a way to like,

1281
01:24:43,040 --> 01:24:46,440
you know, just talk to people in, in a, in a

1282
01:24:46,940 --> 01:24:50,320
calm way and just hear them too. Right. And. Oh yeah, you have

1283
01:24:50,820 --> 01:24:54,800
to listen. I mean, that's the most important part. I'm also a mentor for

1284
01:24:54,880 --> 01:24:58,600
the organization, being an outreach. So if someone reaches

1285
01:24:59,100 --> 01:25:02,080
out to them and says I need help and they're in San Diego,

1286
01:25:02,400 --> 01:25:05,440
they'll hook me up with them so I can help them. Oh, that's great.

1287
01:25:05,940 --> 01:25:08,720
Which I love. All of our listeners can reach out to you too.

1288
01:25:09,200 --> 01:25:12,880
Absolutely. They can call

1289
01:25:13,380 --> 01:25:15,920
me, they can text me, they can email me.

1290
01:25:17,730 --> 01:25:21,450
You know, that's our goal, that's our purpose as

1291
01:25:21,950 --> 01:25:25,570
being outspoken activists, is to

1292
01:25:26,450 --> 01:25:29,770
teach other people and mentor them. Because I'm not

1293
01:25:30,270 --> 01:25:32,690
going to be here forever. You're not going to be here forever.

1294
01:25:33,490 --> 01:25:37,290
And you know, we have to kind of pass the torch down and

1295
01:25:37,790 --> 01:25:41,530
teach the Youngings how to do

1296
01:25:42,030 --> 01:25:45,610
it, you know? Yeah. Because I feel like the movement is aging out

1297
01:25:46,110 --> 01:25:49,560
in a lot of ways. And I do think, I think there's a movement through

1298
01:25:50,060 --> 01:25:53,680
colleges right now where they're doing more. There's some groups doing that and I think

1299
01:25:54,180 --> 01:25:57,480
that's really. Yeah, I love it. But. Yeah, but I do think that, you know,

1300
01:25:57,980 --> 01:26:01,160
we need more younger people and then. Yeah, but at any age you can be

1301
01:26:01,660 --> 01:26:04,560
an activist and you can be a cast for the animals. Yeah.

1302
01:26:04,800 --> 01:26:07,280
Yeah. There's no age limit on activism.

1303
01:26:07,520 --> 01:26:10,800
Any age is. Any age works. That's right. I love

1304
01:26:11,300 --> 01:26:15,040
that. So, my God, I could have you on, like, for a million episodes,

1305
01:26:15,540 --> 01:26:18,640
and I will have you back because there's always so much to talk about.

1306
01:26:19,180 --> 01:26:21,500
It was so much fun talking to you today.

1307
01:26:22,300 --> 01:26:25,500
And I. And I think that it's. It's so important, you know,

1308
01:26:25,580 --> 01:26:28,740
for vegans, animal rights activists, to have a

1309
01:26:29,240 --> 01:26:32,500
place, you know, to. To come to and. And. And learn

1310
01:26:33,000 --> 01:26:35,780
and talk from each other. And I really appreciate you being here. And I have

1311
01:26:36,280 --> 01:26:39,100
some fun questions I like to do at the end with some of our guests.

1312
01:26:39,260 --> 01:26:42,620
And I do. They're just a few. I'm going to like rapid fire.

1313
01:26:43,120 --> 01:26:45,710
Like, don't think, just answer type questions.

1314
01:26:46,020 --> 01:26:49,700
Okay. To wrap it up. So. Okay. Ready?

1315
01:26:49,860 --> 01:26:53,300
Yes, ready. I'm nervous, but go ahead. They're not really.

1316
01:26:53,800 --> 01:26:57,340
They're not bad ones. Okay. Okay. Well, some are easy. Okay.

1317
01:26:57,840 --> 01:27:02,500
Favorite food? I like broccolini.

1318
01:27:02,740 --> 01:27:06,860
Broccolini. Oh, I like that, too. That's really good. Yeah. Okay. Least favorite

1319
01:27:10,820 --> 01:27:15,460
Let's see. Anything slimy. Anything slimy?

1320
01:27:15,540 --> 01:27:18,780
Yeah. What's slimy? Like okra. Okra? Oh, yeah,

1321
01:27:19,280 --> 01:27:22,780
Okra. I don't like okra. I asked the.

1322
01:27:23,280 --> 01:27:25,860
I. I like to ask those ones because I want people to know that we're

1323
01:27:26,360 --> 01:27:28,940
like normal people, too. We don't just like. Yeah. We're not like, you know,

1324
01:27:29,440 --> 01:27:33,060
the vegans just like, you know, like, like with unicorns and,

1325
01:27:33,560 --> 01:27:36,980
you know, there's things I like and don't like. Okay. Morning person or night

1326
01:27:37,480 --> 01:27:41,310
owl? Both. I don't sleep early

1327
01:27:41,810 --> 01:27:45,070
every day. This is how she does it, folks. She doesn't sleep.

1328
01:27:46,750 --> 01:27:50,230
Okay. Guilty pleasure. A show, a movie, a book, or anything in

1329
01:27:50,730 --> 01:27:53,949
between. I am a

1330
01:27:54,449 --> 01:27:57,510
foodie, so I do. And I'm trying not to eat sugar,

1331
01:27:58,010 --> 01:28:00,350
but that is my guilty pleasure is sugar.

1332
01:28:01,630 --> 01:28:03,870
Yeah. What's your favorite dessert, then?

1333
01:28:05,400 --> 01:28:09,080
Favorite sweet? Have to ask. I like vegan ice cream.

1334
01:28:09,240 --> 01:28:12,840
I do. Me too. Yeah. And with

1335
01:28:13,340 --> 01:28:16,960
some yummy granola. Yeah. And some vegan

1336
01:28:17,460 --> 01:28:20,720
chocolate chips and things like that. That's a good guilty pleasure.

1337
01:28:21,220 --> 01:28:24,880
I like. Yeah. Okay. And then finally, what is

1338
01:28:25,380 --> 01:28:29,400
one small action people can do right now, right this minute for

1339
01:28:29,900 --> 01:28:34,220
animals? Call someone, you know that's eating meat and tell them

1340
01:28:34,540 --> 01:28:39,420
that you want to have a conversation with them that's really important and

1341
01:28:40,220 --> 01:28:43,700
just talk to them. And it can be

1342
01:28:44,200 --> 01:28:47,860
a really short conversation. Like,

1343
01:28:48,360 --> 01:28:51,780
you have to talk about the animals every day to as many people as you

1344
01:28:52,280 --> 01:28:55,980
can. And, you know, that's the One thing we can do

1345
01:28:56,270 --> 01:28:59,830
to make a change. Thank you so much.

1346
01:29:00,330 --> 01:29:03,710
I love that so much. Well, I love you and I love this conversation,

1347
01:29:03,790 --> 01:29:07,790
and I thank you so much for being with us. You're such an inspiration to

1348
01:29:07,870 --> 01:29:11,230
me, to everybody, and I'm sure you're gonna have some new fans

1349
01:29:11,730 --> 01:29:15,070
after this episode. I don't know. I might have

1350
01:29:15,570 --> 01:29:18,110
people that are not fans after either,

1351
01:29:18,990 --> 01:29:22,430
and that's okay. You know, if people,

1352
01:29:23,460 --> 01:29:26,100
you know, don't like what I'm doing,

1353
01:29:26,900 --> 01:29:28,420
sometimes it's hard for people.

1354
01:29:30,500 --> 01:29:33,820
I don't think anyone could not like what you're doing. I think they may feel

1355
01:29:34,320 --> 01:29:38,020
like it's not for them, parts of it, but I think that. I think that.

1356
01:29:38,260 --> 01:29:41,660
I think it's inspirational, and I think it could be overwhelming because

1357
01:29:42,160 --> 01:29:45,700
some people aren't outspoken. It took me a long time to be outspoken,

1358
01:29:46,420 --> 01:29:50,360
but people I've known, people who. Or they're just so

1359
01:29:50,860 --> 01:29:54,000
quiet, and then they became outspoken once they started about they're

1360
01:29:54,500 --> 01:29:57,200
doing it for the animals. So. Yeah. Well, we're all on the same team,

1361
01:29:57,680 --> 01:30:01,760
and we have to support one another and

1362
01:30:01,840 --> 01:30:05,920
not judge right people for they can't.

1363
01:30:06,420 --> 01:30:09,720
Cannot do right. But, you know,

1364
01:30:10,220 --> 01:30:13,120
I just look forward every day. I try not to look back,

1365
01:30:13,600 --> 01:30:15,680
you know, learn from mistakes I've made,

1366
01:30:17,080 --> 01:30:20,200
either in public or at protests,

1367
01:30:20,360 --> 01:30:24,200
and just try to make myself a better person every single day

1368
01:30:24,600 --> 01:30:28,080
so I can stay effective, healthy, on to a

1369
01:30:28,580 --> 01:30:31,840
very old age, so I can continue on this path that I've been on my

1370
01:30:32,340 --> 01:30:34,200
entire life. Right. Yeah.

1371
01:30:36,120 --> 01:30:40,280
Yeah. That's my goal. And being connected to you

1372
01:30:40,780 --> 01:30:44,620
and Patrick, who have helped me out so much with

1373
01:30:45,120 --> 01:30:49,260
horses and racing over the years. I'm very grateful

1374
01:30:49,760 --> 01:30:53,740
for the two of you because, you know, I'll text him, like, at 11:30 at

1375
01:30:54,240 --> 01:30:57,820
night, you know, with a question like, I gotta ask you something right now.

1376
01:30:57,900 --> 01:31:01,340
I know. It's so great. And we're so grateful for you, too, and.

1377
01:31:01,840 --> 01:31:05,340
Yeah. And you're out there. I'm so happy we're connected.

1378
01:31:05,740 --> 01:31:09,020
And I hope someday we can meet in person. That would be.

1379
01:31:09,880 --> 01:31:12,920
That would be so amazing. I want to pack my bags and move.

1380
01:31:13,480 --> 01:31:16,280
Yeah. Come to San Diego. It's freezing here. You don't want to be here.

1381
01:31:17,160 --> 01:31:20,440
I mean, it's cold here today, but I. But not just kind of

1382
01:31:20,940 --> 01:31:24,560
cold. Yeah, I. I know. I know. Thank you so

1383
01:31:25,060 --> 01:31:28,400
much. Thank you so much for letting me come on and run

1384
01:31:28,900 --> 01:31:31,680
my mouth. Yeah. I love it. Thank you so much. And we'll have you on

1385
01:31:32,180 --> 01:31:36,330
again soon. Thank you, Nicole. I really am so

1386
01:31:36,830 --> 01:31:40,490
grateful for this opportunity. Thank you. Grateful for you too. Thank you.

1387
01:31:40,990 --> 01:31:41,010
Thank you.

1388
01:31:44,370 --> 01:31:48,010
Hey friends, if you're enjoying in behalf of animals, don't forget

1389
01:31:48,510 --> 01:31:51,890
to subscribe wherever you listen so you'll never miss an episode.

1390
01:31:52,210 --> 01:31:55,130
And if you love what we're doing, it would mean so much for you to

1391
01:31:55,630 --> 01:31:58,690
share this podcast with a friend. It's one of the best ways to help more

1392
01:31:59,190 --> 01:32:02,460
people hear these important conversations. You can also join

1393
01:32:02,960 --> 01:32:06,580
our substack community for updates, behind the scenes notes and ways to get

1394
01:32:07,080 --> 01:32:10,700
involved. Thanks for listening. And remember, be a voice for the animals

1395
01:32:10,860 --> 01:32:12,300
every chance you get.